Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

Given the figures in recent years, no one could accuse the Government of being anti-public service. The public service has expanded and blossomed. I do not like the implication that public servants, per se, are less productive than others in the marketplace. I have equal respect for people who work in the private and public sectors. They both do essential jobs. The only difference is that in the public sector it is not easy to measure productivity and output by means of profit. From my experience in the public service, there is a lot of unexploited scope for redeployment. That is why the overall cap is a good idea.

Under the previous Government, there was a reduction of approximately 1,000 in the number serving in the Defence Forces and a corresponding increase in size of the Garda Síochána. New functions will arise which will require proper staffing, but in a large public service it should be possible to redeploy people. That aspect has been unexploited and perhaps this new system will provide an incentive to pursue it.

The debate on the stability and growth pact was interesting. Ireland's comfortable position within the parameters of the pact is a cause of confidence. Germany greatly distrusted the financial discipline of countries such as Ireland and insisted on the adherence by all member countries to the straightjacket of the pact. It is, therefore, ironic that it should be the first country to reach the ceiling imposed. At the time of the application of the pact in late 1998-9, the Minister had a good relationship with his German counterpart, Oskar Lafontaine. It was a case of one maverick getting on well with another. I mean that in the best sense.