Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I thank Deputy John Bruton for his stimulating speech and pay tribute to the quality of the contribution of his advocacy for the European Union, something he shares in common with his two predecessors as Leader of Fine Gael. The quality of its advocacy is something about which the party can be really proud.

I agree entirely with what the Deputy said on the state and super-state. He may have noticed that I deployed some of the same arguments over the past 12 months or more. Equally, I agree with his comments on federalism on which we must have some rational discussion. The reference seems to be a factual one. It is the case that monetary policy is a competence run on a federal basis. I do not see the reason we should have to put up with constantly shooting down in public debate to kingdom come Thatcherite canards by those not prepared to discuss the issue rationally.

What I would really like to home in on is the discussion on the current international situation and its impact on common foreign and security policy. I saw an interesting and stimulating article which I believe was written by an American who said the United States inhabited a Hobbesian sort of world of power where the famous phrase "life is nasty, brutish and short" was used versus the post-War Kantian concept of a European confederation which is more idealistic and only resorts to use of power, certainly military power, as a last resort.

It is obvious that the Iraq situation has caused serious tensions, to put it mildly, between leading countries pulling in opposition directions. It is not only a question of Britain and France being members of the UN Security Council. Britain has always based its post-War foreign policy, above all, on its special relationship with the United States which seems to take primacy over Europe whereas the French have a concept of European unity which, to a degree, is meant to be a rival to the United States. With regard to the idea of a single UN seat on the Security Council for Europe – if one was French, one could say, "C'est tres beau"– the chances of that happening or of Britain and France giving up their seats are minimal.