Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)

Of all the things I have done in this Bill, this is the one on which I can solemnly say there is political consensus. Every politician wanted this removed. We can have political arguments and make political points but let us not talk in a way which does not represent the facts, and I include, with all due respect, the representative body with which the Senator is very much involved and the General Council of County Councillors.

It is a great privilege to be selected to go before the people and it is an incredible honour and privilege to be elected by them. When the people elect someone under the present system, they de facto deem them fit to be mayor or cathaoirleach of their city or county. I do not envisage a situation in which I would turn around to councillors and say that they are good enough to be elected to the council chamber with all that goes with that but that they are not good enough to be mayor or cathaoirleach of their city or county. That would be wrong.

Directly elected mayors have been talked about but the situation in major cities is completely different and I have no difficulty with that. It is a completely different electoral system. In our case, we would be taking powers from city managers. However, the most significant effect of bringing in directly elected mayors would be to take powers away from the council chamber because we would have to vest the ultimate position in the mayor to make it effective.

Members should not be fooled by the situation in London. The position of mayor of London still exists and it is not Ken Livingstone who occupies a quasi-political position created in the greater London area with an almost ministerial mandate. The position of mayor of London and the council chamber still exists and they guard their power and the tradition that goes with it extremely well as we do in our council chambers, particularly in the premier ones – the five county borough councils – though I mean no disrespect to the other ones. We must think these issues through.

I respect my predecessor for moving in this direction because I think he saw a goal. I am not totally against the point but given our current position and what we are trying to do, this is the way to go. The system whereby councillors are elected by their peers to the position of cathaoirleach or mayor of their council, a position for which they are deemed eligible by virtue of their election by the people, is valuable and cohesive.

I disagree that people do not know who their mayor is. I visit counties and cities where I find that while people may not be able to name all the councillors, by and large, they generally know the cathaoirleach or mayor. As we move forward, this issue will undoubtedly feed back into the system but let us not be disingenuous with each other in this regard. I accept in good faith what people said previously. I responded positively on this issue to every political party, councillor and political organisation only to come into the House to be told people are against it. I do not accept that.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 7 agreed to.