Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)

One has to look at the logic of what we are saying. I am trying to separate – I am quite open about this – the role of local government and national Government. It is clear from the debate that, psychologically, people do not want to see that cord cut. It is my view that it should be cut.

Senators have raised legitimate points about the role of local government and the over-centralisation of Government, which is at the heart of what I am trying to do. I believe it is wrong for the democratic society that exists in Ireland today. We are over-centralised. My colleagues have spoken about this in other debates. They are right. We must break that connection so that we can go forward and give real power to local government. The next big jump beyond this is to ensure local government has much wider revenue raising capacity and control over its resources than it currently has. That will never happen as long as Deputies and Senators remain members of local authorities and the national Parliament. They will not want that to happen because they will not want the local authorities—