Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

It was a far-sighted idea that a group of people, whether drawn from the political class, Members of the Oireachtas, or wherever was envisaged in 1925, would be entitled to present themselves at any prison of which they were a visiting committee at any hour of day or night and be shown to any corner of that prison and speak to any prisoner. That is a remarkable provision for its time. I believe the committee system should be encouraged. Some of the prescribed activities for prisoners have largely been taken over by the probation and welfare service. One of the functions of the prison visiting committee was to arrange interesting lectures and entertainment. There are not many people who would like to undertake that obligation in relation to a large prison. Others are to ensure, for example, that people on release are introduced to prisoners' aid societies. While that was well intentioned it is now a high-minded way of dealing with matters. We should acknowledge that the probation and welfare service should carry out that kind of function as of right for every prisoner, rather than have it done by grace and favour of the members of a prison visiting committee. I do not want to throw out the baby with the bath water. There is some rather murky bath water in this particular tub. I do not want to get rid of the idea but I do not want to make it unduly complicated.

For example, I do not want hearings before the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights on the suitability of any person. Who in their right mind would undergo such a process except somebody who is a zealot with a mission, which would make them suspect in the first place? Who would expose themselves to being torn apart or having their credentials and their party affiliations carefully questioned by a group of politicians if they were not going to be remunerated for the position? Most people with intelligence would not go through some ritual humiliation that is not required.

What we need are people with common sense and intellectual integrity and who are of independent spirit to become members of these bodies and report fairly about what they observe. There is no point going on one of these committees if one has wholly unreasonable expectations about what, bearing in mind the budgetary restrictions involved, the governor and the staff of a prison can do. There is no point turning one's committee into a participant in a civil war in public administration if the result is that people in my position and officials of the prisons service end up regarding the committee as the enemy rather than as something which is there to help. We must take a balanced approach.

The underlying inspiration of tonight's motion, if not its linguistic tone, is that prison visiting committees are a valuable resource and that this House, presumably through the Fine Gael motion or the Government amendment, is inviting me to strengthen and develop the system of prison visiting committees and to make them as effective as possible in discharging their functions and to avoid any tendency to make appointments which might discredit them. That is advice which I willingly take on board as representing the consensus of all the contributions made this evening. In that broad, liberal, cross-party spirit, I prefer the language of the Government amendment, although I do not entirely dispute some of the points made, even in such arched tones, by Fine Gael.