Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

That is interesting. I have an interest in some of the ideological elements to which the Minister of State referred. I am glad it seems to have been referred to as a constitutional treaty, rather than a constitution. I am also happy with the union of states and peoples which seems to be a very apt description of the European Union as it stands.

We should not engage in a Pavlovian response to any reference to the word "federal", particularly in terms of they way it is used in Thatcherite propaganda. The latter has, unfortunately, been adopted by some of the sceptics in this country about the rise of a federal European superstate. The concept of a superstate is nonsense because it would not be possible to develop such an entity on a revenue of 1% of GNP. I am not a federalist, but one has to take account of people who are. We must also take account of difficulties with our public opinion in our own country, particularly in terms of winning referenda, etc. We should try to adopt a more nuanced approach than some of our friends across the water.

Other speakers referred to the issue of defence and neutrality. Would it not be inconsistent with neutrality to have a collective response to terrorism? I would like to hear the Minister's thoughts on that matter.