Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)

I thank you, a Chathaoirligh, for allowing me to speak on this matter and welcome the Minister of State. I was initially reluctant to speak because I feel I do not have the necesssary quailfication to do so. On reflection, however, I decided to avail of the opportunity presented to me. I agree with many of the previous speakers regarding the key issue. The two key words in this debate are idealism and realism. While none of us wants war, we must be realistic.

Iraq is ruled by a tyrant who, according to a 1999 UN report, had biological weapons which could cause mass destruction. At that time the United Nations found that Saddam Hussein had 25,000 litres of anthrax. As we saw the devastation of the anthrax attack in New York in recent years, we can only begin to imagine the devastation that would result if such a level was used in an attack. The United Nations also discovered that Iraq had 38,000 litres of botilium toxin, of which there is now no trace. We must ask where has it gone. In 1999 the United Nations also found that Saddam Hussein had mobile biological laboratories and that he had used poisonous gases on whole villages, especially Kurdish villages. If a man is prepared to poison his own people, what would he do to people outside his own country?

Senator Lydon referred to Saddam Hussein's relationship with his own family. His son-in-law left the country following a dispute with him. He was asked to come back and told that all was forgiven but when he returned to Iraq he was shot on the aeroplane when it landed at the airport. This is the sort of man we are talking about. He cannot even spell the word forgiveness, much less practise it.

The people are concerned about our neutrality. We are not a neutral country and never have been. It is time we had a proper debate on the issue. We cannot sit on both sides of the fence. If a person stands in the middle of the road, he will be knocked down by both sets of traffic. We must examine the issue of neutrality and decide what role Ireland should play.

While it is great to see us playing an active part in the United Nations, it is time we realised that, as a country, we are almost 80 years old and maturing. We should have a belief in ourselves to play an active part in world affairs and not shirk our responsibilities at every opportunity. If the country was truly neutral, we would be spending billions of euro each year on our Defence Forces. We should look again at the whole issue.

The Minister of State referred to the ministerial permission given for the landing of aircraft and personnel. Will he clarify which Minister gives that permission? Is it the Minister for Transport or the Minister for Foreign Affairs as there appears to be some confusion about the matter?