Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)

There seemed to be much more concern on the part of the former Soviet Union to stop people leaving the place than to prevent them getting in. That is resonant of one kind of society. There is no obligation on any EU member state or its police force to check any vehicle leaving the country in order to prevent undocumented people getting out. A system which sought to cast that responsibility or asked the Irish State to assume it would be done by other countries would be a nonsense, as Senator Walsh pointed out. There is no interest on the part of most states in preventing a problem from passing through their territory to the territory of another country.

We must get real about this. This is a carrier liability Bill, not a foreign states police force liability Bill. We cannot control the activities of police forces in continental Europe and oblige them to check vehicles. However, as Senator Walsh said, in the fullness of time – it will be full if we continue at this rate – when we reach subsections (5) and (6) of section 2, it will be realised that there is a full defence to cover exactly the points about which Senator Norris is concerned. While we engage in verbal trench warfare about the definitions in section 1, we ignore the full defences offered in section 2. Unless somebody has a difficulty with the definitions or is offering a different definition, or hoping to offer one on Report Stage, we should agree that section 1 stand part of the Bill.

Question put and agreed to.

SECTION 2.

Government amendment No. 2:

In page 4, subsection (1), line 20, to delete "Great Britain or Northern Ireland" and substitute "Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Channel Isles or the Isle of Man".