Brendan Ryan (Labour)

I do not wish to delay the House but the real difficulty is getting the Minister to address the problem. If someone is in a car on a car ferry, under the legislation the person in charge of the car ferry will be guilty of an offence if he has not checked it. The first reality check is that anyone who has used the car ferry services between Ireland and France knows that on the other side there is a 50/50 chance that his passport will not be checked in either direction. There is no guarantee that the authorities in those countries will check passports. However, an obligation is being imposed with which I would not take so much issue and that is that those operating the ferries are supposed to ensure compliance. It is gross overkill to extend the obligation from the operators of the ferry to people on a family holiday, coming from the Netherlands, France or Italy one of whose members forgets to bring proof of his identity. The only safeguard is that it shall be a defence for someone charged with an offence under this section that he took all steps reasonably open to him to ensure compliance. If a Dutch person on holidays forgets to check that all of his children have their passports, is he taking reasonable steps? There is no need to penalise innocent individuals.

I apologise to the Minister if I was a little sharp. I did not say that he was like Deputy Noel O'Flynn. I said that the language he used was put him dangerously close to being accused of that. He is casual in his use of language and gives encouragement to people like that.

I wish the Minister would explain why he has to penalise the drivers of private cars in the same way and with the same fine as the operator of a car ferry. If the maximum penalty for the operator of a car ferry is €1,500 for one person, why is the penalty the same for an innocent driver of a private car who happens to have someone in the car who is not carrying documents? Why cannot the distinction be made between people who are coming here? This is supposed to be a welcoming tourist-oriented country which is encouraging people to come here.