Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I also want to raise the issue of the three wise men, An Bord Snip or whatever the people who resurrect themselves every decade for one thing or another call themselves. This is part of the continuing process of conditioning all of us for hard times ahead. I point out to Members, particularly on the Government side, that there was an upbeat view of the economy in yesterday's Budget Statement, if people take time to read it. There was talk of growth in GDP and exports and a reduction in inflation after next year. On this basis, we should not consider disimprovements in the public service. There must always be restraint and cost-effectiveness, but it is not about restraining services.

Those who sit in the Department of Finance and claw their way through this are going through what Barry Desmond referred to years ago as the Asgard list, when they went through every possible way of saving money in the State, beginning with the sale of the Asgard. There are individuals in the Department of Finance who kept their heads down during the good times, but who are now sticking their chests out and declaring they are back because they are only happy when times are bad. Whatever about calling a halt to the reduction in public services, it would be utterly unacceptable, in the context of the Minister's prognosis for the economy, to cut back on hard won public services, whether in health or education. Everyone in the House, regardless of the political divide or who they represent, knows this is the case. It is about getting good value and doing it well, not about cutting back. I agree with Senator Brian Hayes that we need to record our opinions on these issues and I would welcome a debate.