Joe O'Toole (Independent)

There are issues to look at here. We could all make speeches about the direct contribution and how inefficient it might be as a means of supporting somebody. There are many on this side, including Senator McDowell, who have never been enthusiastic about the first-time buyer's grant. That is a given. However, it is utterly unacceptable that the way to deal with that is to abolish the grant and not replace it with anything else. I say that specifically in welcoming the Minister of State to the House. If there was a proposal to replace the first-time buyer's grant with something more efficient I would be the first to support it. It is dispiriting, demoralising and undermining the ambitions of young people toabolish it without putting something in its place. The same would apply were it in agriculture. I have referred many times to beef prices.

There is also the question of the economy and supply and demand. I agree that on many occasions interference with the market can cause a difficulty. I have always said that the market needs regulation. The Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, will agree there is no normal uninterrupted and uninhibited market in housing. In the Dublin area it is disgraceful that those referred to as the big seven developers have either a lien on or ownership of almost all the development land.

Given that we are the legislators, why can we not stop it? We should do it. I live in north County Dublin and I know farmers beside me who have owned their land but have done deals with potential developers who have first call on the land and are paying them for it. No matter which way the council goes the land goes back to them. In the 1930s this matter was dealt with in an efficient way because the legislation provided that where there was a compulsory purchase order on development land, it was bought at agricultural prices and the owners got a premium as it was for development.

One of the problems about the first-time buyer's grant is that suddenly it appears the builders are the good guys who are trying to do us a favour. I agree they trousered most of the money but that is of no help to first-time buyers. We have given them, their parents, their immediate and extended families, friends and others who want to be in the same position a focus point at last and I welcome it. Until now I could not get young people to take an interest in the way development land in this county was collared. Neither would they take in interest in profits on housing; they were simply focused on the price. The one good thing about this is that the young population are angry. I am delighted about that because an angry population will question and challenge and eventually the Minister of State will have to respond. He cannot and will not be impervious to that anger.

I wish to make a point about the Bacon report. Of the 50,000 houses sold last year, this year and that will be sold next year we know from the figures that 20% will go to first-time buyers. Approximately 10,000 got the €3,000 grant in 2001, according to the Minister's figures. It is simple enough to divide the €38 million by the first-time buyer's grant and one gets 10,000 which is one-fifth of the houses. More than one-fifth goes to those investing to create a rental market. It is about one in four and the rest goes to those changing up and down and so on.