Brendan Ryan (Labour)

There is a consistent theme running through the debate up to now and I do not want to spend the time allocated to me just repeating what other Members have said. If we, as a society, are to learn anything from this appalling scandal, it must be that all public bodies should have clearly defined lines of accountability. It is the duty of the Oireachtas to ensure this is the case.

Many have commented unfavourably on the nature of the extended debate on the report of the Flood tribunal and the apparent lower profile of the debate on the Lindsay tribunal. It is easy to have a serious political conflict about the Flood tribunal, whatever one's views or position, but this is much more of a human tragedy and I consider it a tribute to the good sense of politicians that a responsible approach has been taken. The views on the kind of report produced by Ms Justice Lindsay have been tempered by the understanding that we are in an entirely different realm of scandal. There is no comparison in any objective sense between the matters investigated by the Flood and Lindsay tribunals, in terms of the damage that has been done.

Decisions should never be taken by a public body, whether it be the Oireachtas, a Department, a health board or VEC and so on, where it is not possible to identify who is responsible for them. There has been a mythical concept of the accountability of the board. Health boards, in particular, are famed for statements prefaced by "I am directed by the Minister". If every letter that begins thus was actually dealt with by the Minister, then he or she would not have any time to do anything but write letters, such is the scale of it. The honourable and well-intentioned determination to make sure there is clear political accountability for public bodies, whether it be a health board, VEC or Department, has created confusion and uncertainty about who is responsible for what. The next stage in the process of transforming our public service is to identify who is responsible.

We have to reach a stage whereby an appointment to a State board is seen for the responsibility it entails, not as a reward for political service nor a statement of status. I am not making a political point, as my own party was also good at this. In the case of the Lindsay tribunal, it is quite right that employees were investigated, but they were merely agents of the board. I do not know the reason Ms Justice Lindsay did not require evidence from the chairman and members of the board. Perhaps there was a good reason. If we are ever to get satisfactory answers to the questions of the people who have suffered in this appalling scandal, then we have to clearly identify who is responsible.