Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I compliment Senator Norris on putting down this issue for debate. It is something we have to address. I join with him in his words of praise for the Leader who has worked hard to put a sensitive amendment to it. I cannot disagree with it but I wish she could have gone a bit further.

Some 12 years ago Senator Norris asked me, as the co-ordinator of the Independent Members in the Seanad, to get Government time allocated to discuss the question of AIDS. At the time it was considered to be extraordinarily avant garde to have such a debate. Many people avoided having anything to do with it. The Government, and it was the Leader's party in government at the time, did agree to provide time. We did not want a divisive debate but simply wanted to raise the issue.

Tonight's motion does not in any way reflect Senator Norris's strong views on this issue. He has put a sensitively worded motion together in order to allow people to address the subject without creating a sense of division, which is not the objective. He discussed it in great detail with me and I know how much he wants the matter to be addressed. There is a real human issue here. The debate should not simply focus on the issue of gay marriages or adoptions – they are certainly a factor, but let us take it one step at a time and look at the point of this motion tonight. It aims to give recognition to people who have committed their lives together whatever their marital status, gender or sexual orientation. In that sense it is no different from many of the other legislation we have put through these Houses to ensure equality and equity for all.

This motion is as much about equity as it is about equality and that is crucial to the issue. In many ways the equality debate has advanced significantly over recent years. In dealing with this issue we must be sensitive. We have to give strength to people who are in clandestine relationships, for the want of a better word, those who are in relationships in which they feel slightly threatened. We cannot change that aspect of things in this House.