Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)

I wish to share time with Senator White. I compliment the Leader of the House for initiating this debate which raises many important issues. The All-Party Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution, chaired by the Leader's nephew, has produced a report which needs to be worked through, and I will talk about one or two of the matters raised.

I compliment the leader of the Opposition, Senator Hayes, on an excellent speech and, though I do not agree with every single point in it, I agree with the spirit in which it was made. Within the broad framework of the party system, this House needs to be a reflective and independent voice. Irrespective of rule changes or reforms, this House will be primarily what we on all sides make it. We have people of good calibre all around and a great opportunity, and there is absolutely no shortage of great work to be done if we decide that we are going to do it.

I would not go so far as to think it is practical to remove the party whip, which is of course always a seductive suggestion, when made from the Opposition benches. The party system in Ireland goes back to Parnell, and the reason it was instituted was to get things done. To achieve that you need discipline, system and organisation. The other system was tried. Isaac Butt had 40 or 50 independents each speaking their mind and voting in all directions, but it was not a very effective method.