My experiences were that the presentation on where the EU was going on defence was entirely different in Dublin from the presentation anybody of significance or representative capacity in Brussels would give. In particular, I discovered this when I went with a group of Members of the Oireachtas in 1997 or 1998 and met the president or vice-president of the European Parliament and senior officials. On the issue of defence they had three consistent themes. They lamented that the European Union did not have the military clout that was consistent with its economic and industrial clout. This is not a lament I share. Even as it was being denied that such issues were being discussed, it was part of the agenda there and that is why people became wary.