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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: I thank the Cathaoirleach. Apologies, I could not be here earlier. It is obvious that one cannot compartmentalise reputational damage. The reputational damage goes across the spectrum. I would have thought that would be something that the University of Limerick, in particular, would be conscious of given that this is not the first time that this kind of thing has happened. In fact,...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Was Professor Kilcommins conscious that information had not gone back to the governing authority?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: There is legal advice and then there are obviously one's own concerns. Professor Kilcommins had concerns.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: The witnesses are giving us assurances that this is not going to happen again and are asking us to take them at face value. It is very difficult for us to take anything at face value from University of Limerick given that this is not the first occasion on which this has happened. There may well be different personnel involved, but we need to see evidence. We need to see evidence of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: I know this pre-dated the position Professor Laffan currently holds. Presumably, there would have been a handover when she assumed that position and she would have been aware of the Dunnes Stores issue. Obviously, it has just been confirmed that the Rhebogue issue would have been known in advance of Professor Laffan taking up her position. Did she ask questions with regard to Dunnes Stores...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: No, I am not asking about that. I mean before Professor Laffan took up the role. She has a reputation - everybody else here has a reputation - and she would want to make sure her reputation is not damaged. Surely, when she was taking up the role of chancellor, she would have asked about things that have the potential to do reputational damage to the university and to her. Did she have...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Presumably, it would have been brought to the attention of the previous chancellor.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: I am sorry; we have just been told that UL was preparing for the previous meeting of the Committee of Public Account last year and Professor Laffan became aware of it at that stage. That is the timeline we are talking about. We had the former chancellor sitting exactly where Professor Laffan is sitting last year. She must have been aware of Rhebogue at that stage. Surely, Professor Laffan...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: She did not ask whether there was anything else.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: No, look, I will ask-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Professor Laffan certainly does not want to do reputational damage. Therefore, I would expect that she would make sure there is nothing that would contribute to reputational damage. Making herself aware of that and asking that question, at the very least, would have been prudent. Let us put it that way.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: It should not have happened. Professor Laffan should have been informed about it. I would have expected her to say that she should have been informed about it because it was something that had the potential to do serious reputational damage. On the carrying value of €5.225 million, if UL was to sell those properties now, what is the valuation on them?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: What is the fallback position? Presumably, UL is considering all aspects with regard to An Bord Pleanála. We do not know what the decision is going to be by An Bord Pleanála but presumably UL has some sort of fallback position. I presume it is do with the fact that they are built as houses and there is obviously a commercial use and that is really the substance of the issue....

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: I will go back to the governing body. Are the same personnel involved? What are the changes on the governing authority? Have there been changes? Are there shortcomings in the governing authority with regard to asking questions or having the financial competence to ask questions?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: In terms of transactions and economic competence, what is the position of the board?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: We have kind of concluded with RTÉ on a range of issues that were about governance failures and one of the conclusions was that the board did not ask hard questions. Their assessment of themselves was too favourable and the recommendation there was that there would be a three-yearly review of their performance. Is there a review of the performance of the governing authority?...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Can Professor Laffan send us a note, because I have a few other questions? Can Professor Laffan send us a note on exactly what the procedures now in place are-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: -----in relation to property acquisition and can she send us a note on where those failures were and the difference that has been made since? If Professor Laffan could that in writing, I would appreciate it. In terms of the personnel involved, were the same people involved with the Dunnes Stores transaction and the Rhebogue transaction? Was there anybody who is a common denominator in...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Right, okay. If people were to go and buy those houses in Rhebogue when they were being sold, I can imagine they would have assumed that they would not be able to compete with the university given the amount. Did people not know what property was going for in the area? This was not 5,000 houses. This was a relatively small number of houses with a very bad transaction. Even looking up the...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: University of Limerick (9 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Why were they not listened to?

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