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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: ...B. It was not something that had popped up out of nowhere; it was part of the arrangement from the get-go when PIMCO was approached. The split was mentioned some time ago. He was telling NAMA that although they were only contacting it at that point, there had been mention of it in the past. He went on to say inquiries had been made and the matter was then looked into in more deal in...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: ...all of the time Mr. Rice was telling Mr. Stewart - I take Mr. Stewart at his word that it might not have been made as clear as this - Mr. Cushnahan was still a member of the Northern committee of NAMA.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: As he described to Mr. Stewart his understanding of an involvement with NAMA, the origins of a fee, the fact that it had previously come to their attention and they had had a look at it, he was giving dates, during which time Mr. Cushnahan was still a member of the Northern committee of NAMA. Is that not the case? That is what Mr. Stewart's note tells us.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: ...a position in the Companies Acts because they are important. They are a legal requirement to be met by companies and entities. Minutes are not mentioned, albeit only a handful of times, in the NAMA Act. They are not just somebody's impression; they are evidence of what occurred. I ask Mr. Stewart to look at the minutes and therein the point of contention, the mention of the April 2013...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I would like to make one final point. The reason this is absolutely critical is the version of events from NAMA - this is in the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General - when it was asked what it had done when this conflict of interest came to light is that when it had come to light Mr. Cushnahan had stepped down. NAMA's response was that it had discovered there was a success fee,...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: NAMA discovered a lot more than Mr. Cushnahan was in line to receive a success fee. It discovered that he was one of the architects of Project Eagle-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: There is no point in disagreeing with me. They are the NAMA board minutes and that is not what they reflect.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am not prepared to engage in a kind of Tomfoolery that we can make words mean what we want them to mean. This is the minute of NAMA's board meeting. The minute reflects very clearly and chimes precisely with the information that PIMCO gave us that negotiations around this arrangement between Brown Rudnick, Tughans and Frank Cushnahan. Mr. Daly knew everything. Mr. Daly knew a lot about...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I find that astonishing. It is in NAMA's minutes but the witnesses have flatly contradicted them.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: It is in there. NAMA is having that discussion. That date is given to the witnesses. Mr. Daly has said it was in a general sense of when the discussion around Brown Rudnick happened. The minute does not say so. It says that NAMA was discussing the success fee or fixer's fee and that discussions around that commenced in April 2013, as part of the overall architecture of the deal.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am not saying that NAMA knew in April 2013 what Mr. Cushnahan was up to. I am saying that in March 2014 NAMA was made aware retrospectively of what Mr. Cushnahan had been involved in. One might ask why does that matter. It matters a great deal because it means that Mr. Daly's initial defence of why NAMA was inert and did not act in respect of Mr. Cushnahan saying, "Sure, he was gone...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Who did NAMA report that too, Mr. Daly?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: On what date did NAMA make that report?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I am sorry to interrupt and I thank the Cathaoirleach for giving way, but I will add to that. NAMA, including Mr. Daly, was aware of a specific relationship between Mr. Cushnahan and Tughans. We discussed this matter previously, if Mr. Daly recalls. The Northern committee met on three occasions in Tughans.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Perhaps it was two. I recall it as three. No matter. When we spoke previously, Mr. Daly was aware that Mr. Cushnahan had had an office in Tughans. Indeed, the correspondence from NAMA to Mr. Cushnahan went to an e-mail address in Tughans. Does Mr. Daly remember how we went through all of this? There is evidence that Mr. Cushnahan held what we termed as clinics for NAMA-related matters...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: Mr. Daly is correct, so I stand corrected on that. Mr. Daly has consistently said that. Nonetheless, NAMA was well aware of the particular dynamic. When all of these issues are bundled together, the implausibility is astonishing. The PIMCO scenario arose, NAMA knew that Brown Rudnick was the mover and shaker in shaping the deal, and NAMA also knew that Mr. Cushnahan had a relationship...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: -----there was someone involved in NAMA who was misbehaving,-----

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: -----the whole thing is peculiar, and it does not feel right and it does not sound right. NAMA had a problem with a fixer's fee in scenario A. It has said that it got assurances that everything was okay but, 'lo and behold, the controversy re-emerged and millions of pounds were resting in a bank account in the Isle of Man. That is what the people on the street are saying. Mr. Daly is...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: ...reflect that he was told something else as well. According to the minutes, not alone was Mr. Cushnahan lined up for this fee at some point in the future, but at a time when he was a member of NAMA's Northern committee, he was involved with Brown Rudnick and Tughans in conceiving of and negotiating a fee for himself at that point. I accept Mr. Daly discovered that in March, but he...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (24 Nov 2016)

Mary Lou McDonald: I think we have to arrive at the conclusion that Mr. Daly, Mr. McDonagh and all present today from NAMA are resolutely sticking to the position that they knew nothing of any involvement of Frank Cushnahan with PIMCO and this transaction prior to March 2014. They are saying that despite the fact that there is a reference in the contemporaneous notes of the telephone call and the board...

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