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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I need not ask about the assurance it gave. I asked whether NAMA ensured that third parties receiving success payments could not make further payments to anyone associated with NAMA. I seek a "Yes" or "No" answer.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: That is fine. May I make an observation based on Mr. Soffe's answer? The answer is obviously "No" because the process would not have been engaged in had the answer been "Yes". If NAMA had asked Cerberus for a guarantee that it would not be making any success payments to any third parties that, in turn, would make payments to anyone associated with NAMA, the process could not have been gone...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...reflective, states, "On the sales process itself, we believe that the C&AG also failed to take account of the wider political and economic and financial implications in Northern Ireland of NAMA’s decision to sell the Eagle portfolio and the obligations on NAMA as a State agency in Dublin to be cognisant of the concerns of the Northern Ireland Executive and of the Irish...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I thank Mr. Soffe for confirming that. Did NAMA have any concerns over the meeting that took place in early 2013 between First Minister Peter Robinson, Mr. Coulter and Mr. Frank Cushnahan at Stormont?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...saying a purchaser will almost be nicer to debtors, particularly in regard to personal guarantees. Did these factors, including the meeting in Stormont, not create some concern at board level in NAMA?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: It is fair to say, however, that NAMA would not have sold were it not for the approach coming in and the way in which it came in.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ..., the meetings that were taking place and the role of Mr. Cushnahan. Did the board not consider all of these activities, the change of thinking as regards a fire sale and the four pressures that NAMA was under? Mr. McEnery has said that section 10 was paramount but not exclusive, which is a very important and interesting statement and one to which we will have to return. Did it not...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: My final reference is as follows. At the board meeting of 12 December, reference was made to the idea that the portfolio sale would release NAMA from what it described as "a disproportionate burden of effort in light of the relative size of the portfolio".

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...am concluding now and not asking another question. The crux of this in relation to the €170 million is dependant on what I spoke about earlier, which is the four factors versus section 10 of the NAMA Act and whether the process was going to be worthwhile. Was it paramount or exclusive as referred to by Mr. McEnery? That is the crux of this issue. It is whether or not the...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: On behalf of NAMA, on behalf of the people?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: On behalf of NAMA or on behalf of people in Northern Ireland, or both?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Having been on the NIAC, Mr. Rowntree's assessment is that there must have been a change of direction at board level in NAMA.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: This substantial and high-quality document was brought to the NIAC with a lot of confidentiality attached. Then the intentions of NAMA, as regards Northern Ireland, changed.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (13 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: The NIAC requested the document and received it. Subsequently, NAMA changed course and decided on a sale process in which it was all to happen in one go.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Do not worry, if I need to I will. With regard to dealing with NAMA, it has quoted the Department as saying that the standard of expertise and experience of staff at the Comptroller and Auditor General's office is questionable with regard to how they performed when looking at this sale. How does the Minister feel about that and is it reflective of the Department's view? Has the Department...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Why would NAMA, in that reference to the Department of Finance, feel there was not that level of competence, expertise or staffing in the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General to carry this out to the level required?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I am trying to get to the bottom of how NAMA is inferring the departmental officials did not believe there was enough expertise and staff in the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General to do this type of work. Does the Minister stand over this or is NAMA incorrect in its statement?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...Minister will agree it is quite unfortunate that this document was leaked four days before it was due to be published. Will the Minister offer any observations as to how that leak happened? How NAMA responded was quite unhelpful.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Fair enough. Can the Minister establish some facts with regard to how he and the Department interacted with NAMA? How often would his Department meet with NAMA and how were those meetings documented?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (6 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...know that. I took that the first time it was said, but I am not asking about that. I am asking about whether correspondence, phone calls and everything else that passed between the Department and NAMA were documented.

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