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Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: Does Mr. Mulcahy agree that the reference to a "disproportionate burden of effort" is really a reference to the fact that NAMA had on it four pressures? First, there was political pressure on the Northern side. There could have been none from the Southern side because that would not have been allowed. Second, there were diplomatic issues. Third, a lack of debtor engagement became an...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: "Perfect" differs from the view of NAMA's chairman, who believes that, if he would change anything, it would be how points were documented in the board's minutes. Does Mr. Mulcahy not agree?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: No. I asked whether Ms Finan agreed or disagreed with the view of NAMA's chairman that how points were documented and reflected in the minutes could have been done better.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: That is a fair answer. I have some more brief questions, but the witnesses will be glad to know that I am moving on from that topic. In October 2013, NAMA authorised PIMCO to be given access to the data room. Did that happen for any other loan sale? Did that early access give PIMCO an advantage?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Mulcahy has not researched it. From his time in NAMA, did this ever happen before? That is all I am asking.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: That is actually an answer, to be fair to Mr. Mulcahy. Usually for a loan sale, NAMA loan sale advisers provide advice on sales strategy, market conditions, estimated values of portfolio, etc. None of this happened with Project Eagle, yet it was the first large multi-debtor sale. Why was this advice not sought?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (17 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: NAMA's loan sale advisers provide advice on loan sale strategies, market conditions and estimated values of the portfolio. None of this occurred in respect of Project Eagle. Given that it was NAMA's first large multi-debtor sale, why was this the case? Why was the advice not sought?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (16 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...the siloing in Northern Irish politics, where it would have been more politically acceptable for the Sinn Féin side of the Administration to allow the DUP side to deal with the issues relating to NAMA's property sales, thus keeping their own hands away from it on account of how potentially toxic it was. Why was he not made aware of this document?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: I just wanted to ask. There has been a debate on the valuation of the assets. NAMA has gone through this matter in detail. Is there any validity in NAMA's argument that, in light of the information that it has provided to us, including on asset locations, the assets would have deteriorated in value over time if NAMA had not got rid of them quickly?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...it in detail. Regarding Mr. McCarthy's report, I feel from some of his responses today that he is hardening even further his position on this process. Of particular relevance is the fact that NAMA states that a number of other potential bidders were offered the opportunity but that this was effectively not the case at all. In many cases it was ticking boxes. The role of Lazard in this...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (10 Nov 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...based on the evidence we have found? I certainly would. I believe that the outside factors I have just referenced were by and large huge components of the decision to sell in the way in which NAMA did.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...them, this has been a public relations disaster. To sign off collectively on a statement like this, with the inferences it contains, is a PR disaster for them. The public relations management in NAMA has not always been the best, and this is another example of it. Some of the inferences in the statement are unacceptable by virtue of the fact that the Comptroller and Auditor General and...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Did Mr. Soffe not think, when NAMA brought in a company to do the work, that an underlying analysis of the assets would have been the right thing to do?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Therefore, Mr. Soffe did not think it would have been right to get the organisation NAMA had brought in to do an assessment of the assets.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: NAMA had the competence in-house. Mr. Soffe did not need a second opinion.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...because I said this to the Chairman. There are a number of references to Brexit in Mr. Soffe's statement. The Chairman should remind me when Cheltenham comes around next to bring the board of NAMA with me because it seems to have a capacity to predict future outcomes. Obviously, Brexit was an issue in the sense that the previous British Prime Minister had referenced that it was coming,...

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: But the weighting put in subsequently, in their few words here and, by the way, as referenced by NAMA's chair, is much higher.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: I do not have any issue with Mr. McEnery's last statement, but it is fair to say that records and documentation could have been kept better. NAMA's own chair said that.

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: ...out or was forced out. We still not have got to the bottom of what happened there. An assurance was received from Cerberus afterwards that no payments would be made to anyone associated with NAMA. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Special Report No. 94 of the Comptroller and Auditor General: National Asset Management Agency Sale of Project Eagle (Resumed) (18 Oct 2016)

Alan Kelly: Past or present. Sorry. I have raised this issue before. What about the step-down process whereby a payment could be made to somebody involved with NAMA through someone getting a payment from Cerberus? In other words, did NAMA ensure categorically that those it was doing business with could not make success payments to anyone associated with NAMA?

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