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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Kathleen Funchion: ...no need. I have an observation. Ms Ansbro made an excellent point about Tuam only being discovered in 2017. That is why it is so important, if at all possible, that we ensure we get this right and cover all potential sites because who would have thought, in 2017, that such a discovery would be made? We just do not know about so many of the sites and so many of the homes. Some of them...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Seán Sherlock: ...begin, I remind Members participating remotely to keep their devices on mute until they are invited to speak. When they are speaking, I ask where possible that they have their cameras switched on and be mindful that we are in public session. In addition, I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the confines of the place which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mr. David Dodd: I thank members for taking the time to hear from survivors and their representatives. The Cork Survivors and Supporters Alliance, CSSA, represents a group of survivors of Bessborough Mother and Baby Home, including former residents and family members of women and children who resided within the institution. The CSSA’s membership includes family members of children...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Holly Cairns: I thank the witnesses for coming in today. My question is for Mr. Parfrey. He highlighted that the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes and Certain Related Matters report states it is not known where the vast majority of children who died in Bessborough are. We know that 859 of these children are unaccounted for. Would Mr. Parfrey be in favour of the Minister for...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mr. Martin Parfrey: We are very strongly of the view that no development should be allowed on any of these sites until the grounds have been investigated. The number of missing babies in Bessborough is horrendous. Our feeling is that excavation has to take place before there is any development. After all, the people of whom I spoke a while ago have spent decades searching for information...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mr. Martin Parfrey: When I was talking about the lack of information, I mentioned a friend who was looking for the burial site of her son and it turned out he was not in Bessborough at all. In the report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes, there was a testimony from one lady whose son died in Bessborough. She wanted to be at this funeral but the home refused and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mr. Martin Parfrey: We believe survivors should be included in any plans going forward. There has been a terrible lack of communication between the authorities and the survivor groups. There has been a deliberate lack of information from certain quarters. Survivor groups should be consulted on any issues relating to adoption, burials and mother and baby homes. Without a doubt, they...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

...? My answer might be at odds with my sitting here. I would say we can do so by following the law. I think the existing law is quite adequate. In the case of Tuam, with which I am most familiar and which is perhaps the most documented, it is possible to excavate. I know from the osteoarchaeology I have seen that in many cases, it is possible to carry out post mortems and to reach a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Aisling Dolan: ...as I come from Galway. I previously met Peter Mulryan. I would like to offer him some of the time allocated to me if he would like to contribute again. He has spoken very deeply about his mother and his sister and even the impact on his own family. It is very stark. There has been a particularly heavy loss of life in the Tuam mother and baby home, especially in the 1930s and 1940s....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mary Seery Kearney: I thank the Acting Chairman. I thank him for confirming the position on broadcasting. I realise it was causing quite a lot of distress. I have received messages and emails about it. Other than a broadcasting unit decision, there is nothing else behind what occurred, and everything will be available online. I have a couple of points. Mr. Mulryan's contribution was incredibly powerful....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mr. Kevin Higgins: Each of us have different points of focus and things with which we are most acutely concerned because we are familiar with them. I am, of course, quite familiar with Tuam but I also know a great deal about Bessborough. The committee gave quite proper credence to Mr. Dodd, barrister-at-law, and his considered and useful view of matters. I am a retired solicitor, no...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Seán Sherlock: ...Senator Seery Kearney. On that note, I propose that we close proceedings. Before doing so, as somebody who is chairing this session, I personally thank the witnesses - Kevin, Martin, David and Peter - sincerely from the bottom of my heart for the compelling evidence that each and every one of them has brought before us today. I speak as just one member here but please be assured that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Kathleen Funchion: ...(authorised interventions) Bill. We are joined in committee room 3 by Ms Anna Corrigan. Appearing virtually before the committee are Mr. Carl Buckley, Dr. Stephen Donoghue, Dr. Jens Carlsson and forensic archaeologists, Dr. Niamh McCullagh and Mr. Aidan Harte. The witnesses are all very welcome and I thank them for taking the time to prepare opening statements and written submissions. ...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Ms Anna Corrigan: My name is Anna Corrigan. As well as being appointed spokesperson of the Tuam Babies Family Group I am also a victim of that which occurred in the home. Eleven of our family are in the pit in Tuam. My mother, Bridget Dolan, was forced to enter the home, and my two brothers, whom I did not know even existed until relatively recently, were born in that home. One of my...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Dr. Stephen Donoghue: I thank the committee for allowing myself and my colleague, Dr. Jens Carlsson, the opportunity to discuss the Bill and our suggested amendment. I outlined my background and qualifications in my original submission. Dr. Carlsson is an associate professor and an expert on conservation and population genetics. In 2018, along with Professor Dan Bradley at Trinity...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Dr. Niamh McCullagh: My name is Dr. Niamh McCullagh. I am a consultant forensic archaeologist. I led the forensic investigation team on behalf of the mother and baby home commission of investigation at the sites of Tuam, Sean Ross Abbey and Bessborough. Today, I am also representing other members of that investigation team, namely, Mr. Aidan Harte, forensic archaeologist, and Dr. Linda...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Holly Cairns: I have the two questions, the first of which is for Dr. McCullagh. She mentioned the absence of recommendations and approaches relating to unidentified remains. Does she have any recommendations in terms of the best approach to that? In respect of this Bill and all matters relating to mother and baby homes, it is important to zoom out and remember the gravity of it and that the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

...of repeating a lot of what was said in the earlier sessions. The biggest problem with this legislation is that it is full of ambiguity. It needs so much more certainty. It is not victim-centric and there is a very real risk that the numerous loopholes within the legislation can be exercised in favour of those other than victims. There is a distinct sense that it is ripe for political...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: General Scheme of a Certain Institutional Burials (Authorised Interventions) Bill: Discussion (14 Apr 2021)

Mr. Carl Buckley: That is an incredibly difficult question to answer. I would not like to put myself in the position or suggest I speak on behalf of all of those mothers and victims, because clearly I do not and I cannot. What the question demonstrates, however, is the reasons there needs to be a proper and thought-out truth and reconciliation process for what went on in the mother and...