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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: ...that made labour, including forced labour, a significant consideration. I suggest, although I may be mistaken, that part of the reason the Ombudsman felt there was no requirement to revisit the Magdalen laundry scheme or anything like it was the fact that many of the complainants had been residents of the industrial schools or residential institutions but had been subject to forced labour...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: When Mr. Martin states it specifically excluded those who had been in the residential institutions and related specifically to those who had been in Magdalen institutions, what does being in a Magdalen institution specifically require? I want to clarify this aspect. Was it strictly required that they had to have been resident in all circumstances?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: ...the Minister will do the same, with less justification or rationale. Mr. Martin said the Department did not have the discretion or authority to include An Grianán and similar institutions in the Magdalen laundry scheme. He said they found themselves alone in a harsh, physically demanding work environment. Is it not fair to say forced labour was a significant part of the Magdalen...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Mr. Jimmy Martin: Let me clarify a technical point. Mr. Justice Quirke was asked a specific question about a specific group of women who would meet the other criteria, that they be in a Magdalen institution but getting money from the Residential Institutions Redress Board, even though they had not been in an industrial school. That is the specific question he was asked and answered. He...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Mr. Jimmy Martin: Because the scheme specifically excluded those who had been in industrial schools. One had to have been in a Magdalen institution. The key was not whether one had worked in a laundry. The key was whether one had been admitted to a Magdalen institution. As for the work element, it could have been work in a laundry or something else. If one had been in a different...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

...institutes redress scheme is not automatically excluded. For example, quite a number of the applicants would have been in an industrial school for a period and would then have moved into a Magdalen institution and would have stayed there until they were 21 years of age. They would get awards under both schemes. There is absolutely no difficulty with that. The awards system under the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Jim O'Callaghan: ...Mr. Martin for coming in and for his presentation. A concern that I and other members of this committee have is that, in February 2013, the State made a sincere apology to the women who were in Magdalen laundries, but there is a view in this committee, which I would hold, that the scheme applied and how it has been applied is not really consistent with the sincerity of that apology. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Therefore, there is no acceptance that the State is legally liable for the Magdalenes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: Mr. Martin has stated the Government's position was that residents of the industrial institutions would not be eligible because they were not residents of the Magdalen institutions. Given that the avenue of their claims was forced labour, on what basis was it discounted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Mr. Jimmy Martin: Yes. That was our interpretation of the scheme. They had to have been resident in a Magdalen institution for at least 24 hours to be included in the scheme.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

...report was the first comprehensive and authoritative account of the abuses suffered by children in these institutions. In the same year, the Department was approached by and met two groups, Justice for Magdalenes and Magdalene Survivors Together. Our understanding was that they wanted the State to acknowledge responsibility for abuses in Magdalen institutions, issue an apology and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: I asked about Ombudsman pension payments. Mr. Justice Quirke said Magdalen laundry survivors should be put in the position they would have occupied had they acquired sufficient stamps to qualify for the contributory State pension. Does Mr. Martin believe it should include a backdating of pension payments to retirement age, rather than simply to the beginning of the administration of the scheme?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: That correspondence quotes the recommendations of Mr. Justice Quirke on pensions, namely, that Magdalen survivors be put in the position that they would have occupied if they had acquired sufficient stamps to qualify for the State contributory pension. On that basis, does Mr. Tyndall agree that the pension payments to which such survivors would be entitled should be backdated to retirement...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Jack Chambers: I thank the officials for coming before us. My first question relates to something I asked Mr. Tyndall. There were 19 Magdalen survivors with disabilities who could not be paid compensation. There was an issue of capacity on one of the recommendations and an issue with the assisted decision-making legislation that was enacted. Today, the Department has said there are 17 women in this...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

...It was never defined anywhere. I will take the example of An Grianán to illustrate the complications. The Deputy is quite right. When An Grianán was established, it was an integral part of the Magdalen institution. By the time it was finished it was in a separate building, not on site, and there was no connection with the laundry. We could not just say it applies to An...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Jack Chambers: In terms of the number of Magdalen survivors and issues with capacity, the Ombudsman mentioned those who have been permanently excluded. Some applicants have obviously passed away due to the administrative reluctance of the Department. It is a shocking development in the context of this redress scheme that they were frustrated by an administrative reluctance to given them redress in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

...in" that excluded them. The scheme that was approved by the Government at the time specifically excluded industrial schools and other institutions on the same site. It distinguished between Magdalen institutions and other institutions on the same site.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire: My final questions relate to correspondence sent to the Minister, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and circulated to several Deputies by Justice for Magdalenes, the Irish Council for Civil Liberties and several other organisations. Mr. Tyndall's recommendations strongly emphasised the need to write to all women affected to inform them of developments in the case, the report and, in particular, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Administration of Magdalen Restorative Justice Scheme: Report of Ombudsman (31 Jan 2018)

Mr. Jimmy Martin: First, the McAleese report distinguished clearly between industrial schools on the same sites and the Magdalen institutions. That is stated in the report which regards them as separate institutions. One of the issues mentioned specifically was that of harsh working conditions. It does not just use the phrase "forced labour". In his report Mr. Justice Quirke, when he...