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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Pearse Doherty: Any land we are dealing with here is already zoned for housing anyway. I am not sure if I completely subscribe to the Minister of State's belief there is no need for additional land to come onto the market. While there may be land with planning permission, the problem is it is not going onto the market. We need some of this land to flow to people willing to develop it for housing purposes....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: ...the Heading “CONVEYANCE or TRANSFER on sale of any property other than stocks or marketable securities or a policy of insurance or a policy of life insurance”—(i) by inserting “of property that is land” after “inter vivos”, (ii) by substituting the following for subparagraph (a):“(a) the instrument is executed—(i) on or after 1...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael McGrath: ...a good tax. I know this tax was introduced by the last Government to deal with the issues referred to by Deputy Doherty. However, it has now become a barrier to the release of development land onto the market. We all accept that one of the main issues in the housing market at the moment is the lack of supply. We need land that is suitable for residential development which is...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: ...62, between lines 10 and 11, to insert the following:"43.Section 604B of the Principal Act is amended in subsection (1)(a) -(a) by substituting the following for the definition of "agricultural land":" 'agricultural land' means land used for the purposes of farming but does not include buildings on the land;",and (b) in the definition of "relevant period" by substituting "31 December 2016"...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: I shall read the briefing note for the Deputy. Consanguinity relief under paragraph (5) Schedule 1 of the Stamp Duties Consolidation Act 1999 is available to an individual to whom land is conveyed or transferred by a close relative who personally farms the land or leases it to an individual who farms the land. The section does not specifically provide for the farming of land by companies....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Creed: It states that in the case where subparagraph (aa)(i)(II) applies, "the individual to whom the land is leased - (i) is the holder of or, within a period of four years from the date of transfer or conveyance, will be the holder of, a qualification ... or (ii) spends not less than 50% of ... time...". The Minister appears to be interfering in a way that is not required in the commercial...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Pearse Doherty: ...for a specified period would be to shoe horn transactions into a particular period of time but that is exactly what we want. That should be the stated objective of Government. We want this land to be released for development purposes. If the period in question is two years, that allows for this to happen in that period. There is a shortage of development land around our capital city....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: I agree with much of what Deputy McGrath has said. He is right to ask how this provision will ensure that land is actually utilised and not left idle. In response, I refer him to the Minister's speech on budget day where he indicated that he plans to launch a public consultation process shortly on the issue of incentivising the use of currently unused land. This will relate to land zoned...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: ...a levy at a later date. This is a measure to remove a barrier to transactions. With regard to Dublin, it is worth saying that in the immediate timeframe there is no shortage of development land in Dublin. The problem is the actual lack of development, which is where consultation on what we can do to stimulate development can play a role. There is no shortage of development land in...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The windfall tax was introduced for two reasons. The first was that individuals made huge gains as a result of the rezoning of land and it was deemed appropriate that some of those gains would be recouped by the State, while the second reason was to serve as an anti-corruption measure. I mentioned at this committee previously that one would hope that local authority members, elected by the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: It might be useful to put on the record the supplementary briefing material I have. It might give members an understanding of the rationale behind this. The definition of "agricultural land" is being amended to exclude buildings due to concerns for EU state aid compliance. The original definition already excluded farm houses and mansion houses unless they were derelict and unfit for human...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Éamon Ó Cuív: ...ran their farms a lot more efficiently than those who were full-time because they had the resources to do so. In other words, the ideal way of getting a family income was to have a job off the land and to run the farm well. The provision in the Bill is fine if one has access to good land that needs intensive farming. However, and I have experience in this area, if one is farming...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: ...years from the date of the lease, will be the holder of, a qualification set out in Schedule 2, 2A or 2B to the Act, or (b) spends not less than 50 per cent of that individual’s normal working time farming land (including the leased land).”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Tom Barry: ...moneys and at the same time are not qualifying for this. I know the Minister will be tired of people bringing up agriculture matters. However, if the push here is to encourage transfer of land, I cannot understand why, in previous times in sections dealing with land lease income exemptions, the exemptions did not apply to sons or daughters. We all wish for elderly farmers to transfer...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Creed: This is a technical area and it is important we get it right because it is about land mobility. I have a somewhat jaundiced view about the ability to prise land from landowners because there is such a historical attachment to ownership of land, for good reasons. Ireland is different to any other country in this regard. If we think about previous incentives, like the early retirement scheme...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Creed: ...is an active farmer himself, if he meets that definition or has an agricultural qualification. He is also entitled to that stamp duty exemption if he decides to facilitate the availability of that land, through a lease, to a third party, but that third party is obliged here to have a certain level of qualification. What is the situation if the person leasing that land is not an...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Tom Barry: ...time must be spent farming. I am a farmer. One can farm successfully and productively on a commercial basis with the use of agricultural contractors. Essentially, the person who manages the land and has the correct records and invoices is the farmer. As a result of the expansion of our dairy industry, and given the huge land fragmentation problem we have in this country, there will be...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: The policy position is that this is not in the interests of raising revenue for the Exchequer but for bringing land back into commercial use where it is underused or which, through a change of ownership, may become underused. The definition of commercial farming is that it is being farmed for profit. Everyone agrees there are other factors in addition to the reluctance of farmers to loosen...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister of State mentioned 30,000 housing units and stated there is enough land with planning permission for these.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: Land zoned for housing and with planning permission in the Dublin area.