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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Jackie Cahill: I remind members, witnesses and persons in the Public Gallery to turn off their mobiles phones. The purpose of today's meeting is to continue with the pre-legislative scrutiny of the general scheme of the agriculture appeals (amendment) Bill 2024. The committee will hear from the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine who is accompanied by officials. Witnesses giving evidence...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: I thank the Cathaoirleach and members for promptly putting this on the agenda of the committee and dealing with the pre-legislative work on the proposed Bill. As the Cathaoirleach stated, it has been on the agenda for some time and we are very keen to progress it through the Houses of the Oireachtas. Key to that is this initial engagement with the committee and the thoughts and feedback of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: The reason is that an error in fact of law would be obvious quicker whereas a change in circumstances might happen a few months after and might not be as obvious at the start. That is the reason for the difference between the three months and the six months being proposed here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: ...months for the seeking of a review of the decision of an appeals officer in the event of new evidence or facts or a change in circumstances since the decision was made. Where a review is sought, that would go to another appeals officer on the 12-person appeals board for consideration. That is where there has been a change of circumstance or new evidence or facts have emerged. More time...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: A fact of law is where someone believes the law was not applied properly, or believes the facts were not properly reflected and the decision does not stack up in the face of the facts that the person presented or does not stack up in regard to the application of the law to the decision. In that case, at present, people can appeal it to the director of the appeals office. Under this new...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Paul Daly: ...him on bringing the Bill to this stage. The review of the 2001 Act has been ongoing for a long time. I recall we had many wholehearted discussions on it during the previous committee. I usually sat in this corner, with the Minister by my side. It would be remiss of me not to mention my former constituency colleague, Willie Penrose, who was very vocal on this issue in particular at the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: I thank the Cathaoirleach. I thank Senator Daly and acknowledge that this is something he has supported over the last number of years too. On the Senator's point about the independence of the chair, the 2018 report indicated that the system was independent and robust but that this legislation could strengthen and add to this by changing the role that is currently done by the director of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Tim Lombard: I welcome this very important legislation. I wish to ask the Minister about the timelines for the legislation. We are now in the last day of February and March is a busy month. We are looking at a situation with unusual timing regarding the election cycle. Does the Minister believe he has enough time to get this legislation through the hoops of the Houses of the Oireachtas and signed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: I believe that we do. It must go through the various Stages, including in the Seanad, but this piece we are doing here now with the pre-legislative scrutiny is important. Generally there is broad acceptance of the Bill and that it will have broad support. I am certainly open to the committee members' views on how we can be sure the legislation will do the job as effectively as it should....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Tim Lombard: With regard to the 70 years of age issue, a topic that is appropriate given we have also highlighted the school bus driver issue this week, as Senator Paul Daly has said, are there other issues within the Department of a 70 year age limit that the Minister might look at regarding other Chairs and other boards? Is that just a unique one or are there more out there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: The Bill, as drafted, is what is presented, but obviously it is at pre-legislative scrutiny stage and the final Bill is something we can reflect on further. One of the key objectives here is to ensure that as part of the review panel there is representation of people with practical experience of farming. That will certainly be the way I proceed to set the board up. As to how we reflect...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: On somebody accompanying the person, we provide for that in the legislation. The person can represent themselves or can have somebody represent them on their behalf. I presume we mean both the appellant and the representative can be there at the same time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Johnny Mythen: It does not state that. That is what I am talking about - at the same time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: Basically, at the moment for an oral hearing, it states “An appellant may represent himself or herself or be represented by another person at the oral hearing of his or her appeal.” I take the Deputy’s point. That could well be read like an either-or as opposed to-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Jackie Cahill: In practice at the moment, a consultant would often come with them and they might ask to bring another person as well. Therefore, perhaps that could be broadened. I am not saying they can bring a whole circus but to have three would not be extravagant. In the vast majority of cases, they bring a consultant. In many cases, they will ask for a political representative to come with as well,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Charlie McConalogue: That has always been allowed. Section 8(4) indicates “An appellant may represent himself or herself or be represented by another person at the oral hearing of his or her appeal.” The point after that states, “Where an appellant is represented by another person at the oral hearing of his or her appeal, the appeals officer hearing the appeal may examine the appellant, if...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agriculture Appeals (Amendment) Bill 2024: Discussion (Resumed) (29 Feb 2024)

Jackie Cahill: I will make one point on that before the Minister replies. At the moment, force majeure applies to the applicant for the premium, for whatever scheme it is. In some cases, the person doing the work on the farm might not necessarily be the applicant for the scheme. A younger person could be doing the work. If the younger person faces a force majeure situation, it is not covered. It...