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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

...working and researching the area of corporate taxation and the taxation of multinational enterprises, MNEs, for many years. MNE tax strategies are complex but often obscure. The tax strategies of Apple were first revealed in detail by a US Senate sub-committee in 2013. These complex arrangements were known to very few. One reason for this is that all Apple subsidiaries in Ireland are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Michael McGrath: Dr. Stewart went into the Apple issue in some detail. I thank him for that. He is a strong advocate for tax justice. Emerging from this case is the scenario whereby all of Apple's profits outside of the Americas - approximately 60% of its global profits - should have been subject to tax in Ireland as opposed to all of the other countries where Apple had operations and its products were...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

...the Commission mentioned another, but there are likely to be further cases in which profits will be reallocated. It is difficult to decide on how profit should be allocated within a firm such as Apple. The profits do not arise just from intellectual property, IP. The Cork branches had entered into a contract with Apple so that they have the licence to use that IP. It also results from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...is now the subject of legal proceedings, Mr. Redmond was quite happy a moment ago to say he believes that what Revenue told this committee was correct, while refusing to say that he believes what Apple said to the Senator congressional committee was correct. Why is he willing to quote an argument that suits Apple and to confirm his belief in the veracity of what was said by Revenue here,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Most companies would obviously pay tax on their profits accrued in a certain jurisdiction. The companies Apple Sales International, ASI, and Apple Operations Europe, AOE, have paid no tax anywhere in the world.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: ...staff directly employed, in addition to the approximately 100,000 attached to those jobs, would the US companies stay or, to use the expression, would the horses be scared away from the prospect of Apple having to pay the €13 billion? I am talking in the general rather than about the Apple case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Mr. Phillip Bullock is the head of tax policy in Apple. Given that Apple Inc. is one of the largest, if not the largest, company in the world, I would imagine he knows his business. He gave sworn testimony before a US Senate hearing that there was an arrangement with the Irish Government which allowed for the taxable profits to be calculated at 2%. Does Mr. Redmond dispute that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Rose Conway Walsh: I thank the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland for being here. The Apple ruling made international front pages from the Financial Timesto Metroin London, with headlines proclaiming fury at Apple’s 0.005% tax bill. A poll of international readers of The Economistfound that the majority agreed that rules were flouted regarding Apple’s tax arrangement. This continues to be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I will discuss the Apple case with Mr. Keegan and Mr. Redmond and then the hypotheticals. Mr. Tim Cook stated in the statement in August of last year that Apple had taken a Revenue opinion on how the taxes would be applied and acted in accordance with that opinion. The Revenue Commissioners have also said that is the case, that they gave an opinion of how the law should be applied to the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Dr. Jim Stewart: Apple was going to appeal. It has significant resources and could easily finance the appeal itself. It was in its interests to appeal. The State should have stepped back and said we made a mistake but we are now willing to stick to state-aid rules. The arrangement with Apple was deemed to be illegal. If the EU had found out about this some years ago, it would have been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Richard Boyd Barrett: ...that operate here. Nobody has suggested that any such aspersions should be cast. It is a complete red herring. I would like to pick up on a line of questioning from earlier in this meeting. Apple is a member of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland. Does Mr. Redmond have any reason to believe the representatives of Apple were telling lies to the Senate congressional committee?...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Dr. Jim Stewart: Apple on an organisational basis decided to allocate most of its non-US profits and route them through Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

...owed to Ireland. However, in terms of economic value added, it probably arises in other countries. There are difficulties in the appropriate allocation of profits, particularly for Google and Apple, in other countries. It is a very difficult decision.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Michael McGrath: The payment by Apple of €13 billion to Ireland is hardly a leading example of tax justice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Dr. Jim Stewart: It is better than Apple not paying any tax at all on those profits.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Pearse Doherty: Is Apple a member of the American Chamber of Commerce Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: Is Mr. Redmond's organisation concerned about the retrospective nature attached to the Apple case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Michael D'Arcy: I assume Mr. Redmond's body represents many of those marquee names - Apple, Google, etc. What is the primary reason they are established in this country? Is it access to the Single Market or our staff? What is the primary reason they are here?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Mr. Mark Redmond: As I understand it, what the European Commission has to prove is that not only did it give a ruling, but it selected Apple for special treatment. There are two parts to it. I believe it is so important-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: EU State Aid Investigations into Tax Rulings (resumed) (7 Feb 2017)

Rose Conway Walsh: ..., however. Strides are being made to put that right. The Government, however, was dragged kicking and screaming to do that and is now taking credit for it. Is it right that a US company such as Apple should refuse to appear before this committee?