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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: I thank the Cathaoirleach and welcome the Minister and her team. The Minister's statement to us tonight in respect of the events of last week sets out that on two separate occasions last week the Minister asked the chair if there a formal approval role for the board and on two occasions Siún Ní Raghallaigh said quite clearly to the Minister, "No". When the RTÉ chair corrected...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: But did she lie to the Minister last week?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Does the Minister feel that Ms Ní Raghallaigh purposely misled her on those occasions before correcting it?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: I know the Minister did not. I am just asking the Minister in the context of trying to understand it. Did the Minister feel that she had been either lied to or purposely misled, given, as she said, she asked on numerous occasions very direct questions on a very direct exit package?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: The Minister cited in her statement tonight that this was not the first time that the chair had, in fact, failed to give her clear accounts of her work or the work of the board. What were the other occasions?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Clearly, in her mind, the Minister had now been fed a series of inaccurate or misleading pieces of information. Given that the Minister has used such a line in her opening statement that this was not the first time she had been given wrong information from Ms Ní Raghallaigh, is it the case, from her perspective, that her blood was up going up to RTÉ that night to do "Prime Time"...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Okay.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Okay, but, given the seriousness of that situation, the Minister could have backed out of "Prime Time". This is politics. Given that the Minister had sought a meeting with the chair on Friday morning, at which she knew she could have cleared the air - the meeting she said in her statement she wishes she had - and given that her statement tonight shows that she felt the relationship had...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: It is clear that you came to the end of the road. You said you had reached the end of the road with your relationship with the chair on the basis you felt you could not trust her anymore.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Did the Minister or any of her political advisers discuss with the "Prime Time" team the issue of whether she had confidence in Siún Ní Raghallaigh and to ask for that question to be planted in that discussion?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: The Minister's advisers had flagged with the research team or the presenters that she was willing to answer a question in respect of having confidence in the-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: That was not planted with the team, no?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Last Monday night, at 6.30 p.m., all of us received an email from Kevin Bakhurst, the director general. There is a lovely picture of him there. He told us about your meeting last Monday and he described it as a "positive and constructive meeting", and that he highlighted to the Minister "RTÉ's commitment to transparency and the process and procedures". The DG knew these processes and...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: That is fine but we are now at the centre of a storm around the national broadcaster. This man has been brought in to clean it up. He sat in the room with you and the chair and he said nothing on your direct questions about the process that was involved for that exit package, and whether the board approved it. How can the Minister have confidence in the director general and not in the chair?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: So you do have confidence in the director general?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: Okay. They were a team, as was evident in his statement last week, and the huge regard he had for Siún Ní Raghallaigh. However, if Ms Ní Raghallaigh misled the Minister in that room last week, which is clear - we have extrapolated here that she did, as far as the Minister is concerned - then so did Kevin Bakhurst. The Minister summoned them last Monday to discuss the process...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: That is amazing.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: He sat in the room and listened to that inaccurate information being given to the Minister. He knowingly sat there, and let that misinformation be given to the Minister. Either that, or nobody knows what is going on in RTÉ whatsoever.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: That is an amazing admission. Why bother summoning him at all? Was he there to make the tea? That is amazing, and it is not consistent to say that you have confidence in him and no confidence in the chair because your relationship was with the chair. He is actually running the ship. He is the paid executive on hundreds of thousands of euro, appointed to run the ship, and you say that you...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Oversight of RTÉ's Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues and Plans for Longer-term Support and Funding for Public Service Media: Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media (27 Feb 2024)

Shane Cassells: That is amazing. Either they should both be gone or they should both be in their jobs. Was this personal against the chair because you felt that she had misled you too many times, and this was the end of the road?

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