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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

John McGuinness: The minutes of the joint committee's meeting on 1 May and 8 May 2024 were agreed earlier at a meeting of the committee in private session. We are joined by Mr. Niall Cody, Ms Jean Acheson and Ms Leeann Kennedy from the Office of the Revenue Commissioners. They are welcome. I draw the attention of members to the notice on privilege. If they are on the campus, they are covered by...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: I thank the Cathaoirleach for agreeing to reschedule my attendance to today, after the publication of both Revenue’s annual report for 2023 and the latest series of research reports and statistical papers. The annual report marks a centenary of service by Revenue to the State. In its correspondence last March, the committee set out a number of areas which are of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: I had expected to be talking about the businesses that have not engaged, but I can get those figures for the Deputy. At the end of the month, we will be publishing a detailed breakdown and analysis of all the ranges, such as how many businesses owe under €1,000, how many owe between €1,000 and €2,000 and so on among those that are outstanding. One of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: It will be at least a week, but sometimes it will be more than a week. The final demand, however, will be a seven-day notice where we state that if there is no engagement with us within the seven days, appropriate enforcement action will follow, and the appropriate enforcement action will depend on the circumstances of the case. Obviously, there are some cases where the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: Mr. Cody stated earlier that one business owed the largest sum and Revenue was waiting to see what would happen with that. Would that not suggest that business had not needed warehousing at all, given it was able to pay back the full sum?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: I go back to March 2020, when the then Taoiseach announced the public health restrictions. At that stage, we issued a press release about suspending enforcement action and interest collection. From memory, I think it issued on 15 March 2020. The temporary wage subsidy scheme then came in with effect from 27 March. We had no idea what was coming. Our debt enforcement...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: We will be publishing this in detail. This morning, I was looking at the figures from last night and I was tempted to give them, but I said “Stop”. We will be publishing detailed statistics with all the breakdown by the end of the month. Some of the 500 cases have put forward proposals to us for phased payment arrangements that we are still working through,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: One of the problems is that we look at the averages when the averages can give a false tale. Some 7,000 cases have debt of less than €5,000.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: They had not engaged by two days ago. There is €130 million for those cases over €50,000 and there are fewer than 800 such cases. There will be a clear concentration to see what that figure is left at. It is interesting that since we issued the letters last week, there has been engagement by people agreeing and putting forward proposals for a PPA. The thing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: I would not necessarily say that is the case over our history. There were various periods. In 2022, when the debt warehouse ceased, we would have recommenced enforcement action and there would have been a bit of pent-up demand at various stages. We were chatting ourselves about what the process is and what we do next. There were 55,000 cases in the warehouse six weeks...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Rose Conway-Walsh: What I am trying to get at is the equity and fairness in this. The €153 million could be one company, two companies or 2,000 companies.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: Yes. It reflects the timeliness of compliance. The first thing is that there is a legal obligation on a taxpayer to submit their returns and pay their liabilities by the due date. We carefully monitor large companies and the voluntary compliance rate for large companies is 99%. For medium it is 98% and for smaller entities in the annual report it is 90%. We had a plan in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: The pandemic was a unique set of circumstances and it brought us into areas we are generally not involved in. I probably spent more time at meetings in the Department of Finance than normal. It started with the wage subsidy scheme. When the economic crash came in 2008, we issued press releases about people contacting us early and engaging with us. My colleague Gerry...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: I hope not to be in this job or any other job at that time because it would be a really bad sign.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Jim O'Callaghan: Ms Acheson may want to come in. When looking at the €23.8 billion, €20 billion of it comes from what are referred to as foreign-owned multinationals. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Jim O'Callaghan: That does not take into account the amount of employment taxes paid by those large corporates, particularly the foreign-owned multinationals. Is there any assessment as to how much employment tax they are paying at present? I saw in one the reports that the combined employment taxes paid by large corporates was €28.9 billion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Ms Jean Acheson: One of the reasons we add that detail is because month to month we just get the CT receipts, which are the latest picture of the tax. However, it is good to take a step back and look at the other contributions. Regarding employment by foreign-owned multinationals, it is just under €1 billion for the latest year of CT returns, so that is about 35% of all employment...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: There is active engagement in that area. We have met the Irish Farmers' Association, IFA, and the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association, ICMSA, in the past few months. I note the agriculture committee had a session about it last week. It would be useful to set out some of the challenges we have in respect of the VAT 58 process. The VAT 58 scheme is based on an order...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

Mr. Niall Cody: The statutory instrument that gives effect to it. We have a VAT system based on EU law. Every farmer is entitled to register for VAT. If farmers register for VAT, they are entitled to deduct all farm expenditure. For unregistered farmers, there is what is known as a flat-rate scheme, where there is a flat-rate addition on sales by unregistered farmers. The purpose of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revenue Commissioners: Discussion (15 May 2024)

..., the claims come in and we select a number of them. It is a self-assessment system. Some proportion of claims are allowed and a proportion of them are checked. It is probably linked to TAMS, that there was more expenditure and that we would look at individual claims. If we identify something that is effectively equipment that is being claimed, probably perfectly innocently by the...