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Written Answers — Department of Justice and Equality: Garda Station Refurbishment (10 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: 334. To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality the progress made on the refurbishment of the Garda Síochána station at Fitzgibbon Street in Dublin 1; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [39516/15]

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: I welcome the officials from the Departments of Justice and Equality and Public Expenditure and Reform. I apologise for not being present for the opening statement, but I read Mr. Waters's in detail. Since he concentrated on Thornton Hall, I will do likewise. Before I do, however, questions arise across the board regarding moneys that have been spent but for which there is no perceivable...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: The original pathology project was begun in 2007 and terminated in 2012. Five years passed and now there is the possibility of a new one in 2015, three years later. The Whitehall Garda station has been free for a number of years too. What happened to the money? How is it that all of this was totally abandoned with nothing to show for it?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: Yes, but I have a further question before Mr. Waters moves on. Surely there was a backup. This went out to tender, so was there no alternative building contractor?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: Which office is this?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: I thank Mr. Waters for his very comprehensive statement on the matter and we have a fair idea of all of this. Despite the description given by Mr. Waters of how it happened, it seems to have been a flawed project from the very beginning. It started not as an extension of Mountjoy Prison, but as a replacement for it whereby it would be demolished. The cost began at €150 million, and...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: It was the only juvenile open prison. It would be expected that we have an open process to facilitate the rehabilitation of young people going into the system. This has always been part of the Irish prison culture. It was questionable that the provision of a replacement for Mountjoy Prison was put against the closure of an open prison. At the beginning the cost was €150 million and...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: This was the argument put forward at the time, that part of the sale price would go into the process. Then the project went totally out of kilter and became three times the original size, going from 723 places to 2,200 places. I cannot understand who was in charge. The necessity to provide decent sanitation for prisoners in came up in various reports and Mr. Justice Kinlan was strong on it...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: It was stated that a substantial project was being considered for Thornton Hall. Perhaps it was a different project that has gone out the door. It does not seem to have a beginning, middle or end. It seems to be absolutely the wrong way to conduct business. From the beginning there has been no business plan and no proper analysis has been done, and it is still being run as though nobody...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: I raise the issue because we are speaking about very substantial sums of money.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: On that point, at the time the cost placed on the provision of in-cell sanitation in Mountjoy Prison was several hundred million euro.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: It was presented as though it was virtually impossible to do and therefore an alternative site was needed, that Mountjoy Prison had to go because of the conditions there and the major considerations related to slopping out and in-cell accommodation.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: There were others also but Mountjoy Prison is still there. The capital programme available to address all of that could have been put in place in 2010 and would not have cost more than €30 million. Extra numbers in the region of 2,200 were going to be provided so can the witness indicate why this was not addressed at a much earlier stage? The pressure was on from the European Court...

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: It was the main issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: What was the main issue?

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: A 300 cell unit could be built in the midlands in no time.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: The in-cell conditions could have been addressed in parallel with continuing with Thornton Hall.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: No, Mr. Waters is avoiding my question.

Public Accounts Committee: Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General 2014
Vote 21: Prisons
Vote 24: Department of Justice and Equality
Chapter 9: Development of Prison Accommodation in Dublin
(5 Nov 2015)

Joe Costello: Why were the deplorable conditions for the prisoners in Mountjoy not addressed at the same time as going on with Thornton Hall? That was a feasible project.

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