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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: I thank the witnesses for joining us today. I have a number of questions. I might not get through them all but maybe if we get brief answers we have a chance of doing that. The NTMA obviously takes a view of the markets and what is going on in the national economy, or more importantly the global economy. Has the NTMA done any modelling on the impact of tariffs or the impact of Ireland's...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: So the NTMA takes the Department of Finance forecasting modelling.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Great. I am just trying to understand the net debt figure. This is €157 billion and it is based off €218 billion debt and whatever is in our two sovereign wealth funds. That still leaves a gap of between €40 billion and €50 billion. What is that? Is that short-term cash?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: How is that cash managed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Okay. That is a substantial short-term cash balance. How is that managed? Where is it kept? Is it liquid cash? How is return versus liquidity balanced?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: What is the broad investment strategy for the two sovereign wealth funds? Will Mr. O’Connor comment on the targeted percentage return? How liquid are those investments?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Is the ISIF now fully divested from the companies on the UN Human Rights Council’s database?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Are there plans to continue with those holdings?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: With regard to the fraud case, it was mentioned that €1.54 million was recovered. How can money be partially recovered? Is it the bank in question that contributed to that? Should it not be fully recovered or not recovered at all?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Okay. That is fair enough. Has there been any other such fraud in any of the NTMA bodies or NewERA companies in recent years?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: While I am conscious there is no one from NewERA present, of the 24 companies, from looking at the balance sheets, it seems that there is a substantial amount of cash and debt. Has any thought ever been given to an inter-company centralised treasury operation to offset one against the other across the companies?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the NTMA on Matters Relating to its Operation (22 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Staff bonuses rose 13% to €3.22 million. What KPIs drive variable pay?

Written Answers — Department of Public Expenditure and Reform: Economic Data (17 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: 39. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his response to the recent IMF report on the Irish economy, especially in relation to the areas under his remit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39789/25]

Written Answers — Department of Public Expenditure and Reform: Public Expenditure Policy (17 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: 50. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the way in which public expenditure to date in 2025 compares to the same period in 2024; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39790/25]

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: The Impact of Tariffs on the Irish Economy: Nevin Economic Research Institute (16 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: I thank Dr. McDonnell for his valuable input. I am intrigued by the new model. We strayed into discussing the evolution and reform of the economy. Is there something Dr. McDonnell could share with the committee on that matter?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: The Impact of Tariffs on the Irish Economy: Nevin Economic Research Institute (16 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: I thank Dr. McDonnell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: The Impact of Tariffs on the Irish Economy: Nevin Economic Research Institute (16 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: Go raibh maith agat, Chair. I did not realise I was first on the list.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: The Impact of Tariffs on the Irish Economy: Nevin Economic Research Institute (16 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: I am happy to be first. Dr. McDonnell is very welcome. I thank him for his lengthy and detailed introduction. Sometimes, a presentation by a witness covers off all questions. On occasion, however, it can give rise to a lot of questions. I have ten minutes. I will try to get through a few of my questions and perhaps we can come back then later. What area does Dr. McDonnell want to focus...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: The Impact of Tariffs on the Irish Economy: Nevin Economic Research Institute (16 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: To sum it up, essentially, he is saying that the state or bloc imposing the tariff will be hit and, to a lesser extent, the recipient of the tariff will be hit. This would suggest that a policy of not retaliating in that regard would make a bit of sense. In addition, what is also contributing to short-term volatility and a pause on investment and decisions is the fact that we are in a state...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation, and Taoiseach: The Impact of Tariffs on the Irish Economy: Nevin Economic Research Institute (16 Jul 2025)

Shay Brennan: I think I probably already know the answer to this one, and Dr. McDonnell definitely cannot put a firm figure on it. He provided a lot of statistics and potential economic impacts using concrete numbers in respect of a 10% tariff. Is a 30% tariff three times as bad as 10% or is the impact exponential?

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