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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: It is just an increase in costs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Thank you. To come back to the bus transport, as the Secretary General can imagine there are major difficulties with school transport every year with under-capacity, routes and all of that. I understand a review of the school bus scheme is being carried out. Am I right on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Can the Secretary General advise why that review was undertaken? I heard him say earlier that he thought it was value for money.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Not divided based on religion, I hope.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Okay, so that is part-basis. When does the Secretary General expect that review to be ready?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: The Secretary General expects that will extend the review. Has he an idea of the timeline involved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: We look forward to that. If I may have one further minute, Chairman, regarding the statement of internal financial control and fire safety, there has been a spend of €1.5 million over 55 schools identified as fire safety compliance work. Could the Secretary General explain that to me?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Okay, that is perfect. They identified 40 that needed-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: I appreciate that. Will that money be recouped through the remediation cases?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: We can expect to see that money coming back effectively

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: But it is part of the case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Briefly, on the €6.67 million that came back from Bus Éireann, was that over year or an accumulation of excesses that it had stored up?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Was it accumulated over one year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Thank you.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Ó Foghlú spoke about value for money in terms of bus transport. In Bus Éireann, there is a policy that over-70s cannot drive a bus. Under employment law, that would not be tolerated in the private sector. It inhibits the process from achieving value for money. Many over-70s hold a licence and are suitable to work school hours, namely, mornings and evenings and nothing...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: I can see that. There are requirements for Garda vetting and so on, but many of these people are retired bus drivers who could take up this work. I appreciate that where the leaving certificate is required, one of the foremost matters on the Department's mind is the well-being of students. Has it any engagement with the UK in that regard? The UK is already considering not holding next...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Department of Education and Skills
(21 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: I thank Mr. Ó Foghlú.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Accounting for Capital Assets
Chapter 5 - Accounting for Allied Services
(22 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: I thank the witnesses for coming in. They will not have seen me before. Sticking to pensions, we can see from the single public service pension scheme that in 2013, it took three years for anything to happen in 2016 with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and it has been underestimated every year since. Can the witnesses give me the reason that it is continually underestimated...

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Accounting for Capital Assets
Chapter 5 - Accounting for Allied Services
(22 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: No. It is the underestimating of the appropriations-in-aid.

Public Accounts Committee: 2019 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Chapter 3 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
Chapter 4 - Accounting for Capital Assets
Chapter 5 - Accounting for Allied Services
(22 Oct 2020)

Verona Murphy: No. It is the underestimating of the appropriations-in-aid in relation to the single public service pension scheme. It was underestimated by €94 million in 2019 and by €92.5 million.

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