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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I thank the witnesses for coming in. I am looking at the growth of the organisation since 2019. It went from an expenditure of €600 million to more than €1.6 billion. It is right to acknowledge at the outset some of the NTA's achievements, particularly the bounceback of figures on public transport post Covid. Ireland was very much an outlier in the European sense. If one...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: What is the NTA's current figure for outsourced placements?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That needs to layered on top of the number of people outsourced for specific projects. The latest figure I have in that regard is 123 staff. What would be the NTA's more up-to-date figure for those outsourced for specific projects?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Currently the NTA has 286 staff employed as core employees and 275 staff as outsourced placements. Is that the current standing?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It is almost half and half. According to the briefing pack, staffing costs are €24 million. That staffing cost was for the 255 core staff. How much does it cost to employ the now 275 people who are outsourced?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Yes. I have a figure for the core staff but I do not have one for the outsourced staff.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Some €46.9 million is being spent on outsourced staff. What movement has there been since the 2022 figure of €24 million for in-house staff?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: In broad terms, NTA staffing between in-house and outsourced is almost 50:50 when we include the kind of business as usual plus specific projects. Staffing cost for in-house staff is €23 million but for outsourced staff it is €46.9 million, which is almost double the cost.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It is worrying from a value-for-money perspective when I look at the staffing cost. My other issue relating to the outsourcing of staffing is that I, as a member of this committee and a Member of the Oireachtas, do not have a great line of sight in terms of value for money. The Department surely has a role in this. I do not have a good line of sight in terms of the competencies being...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: Just to dig down into the next layer and into the local authorities, I am aware that active travel teams are being built across most of our local authorities and there is good investment in it. I have a worry about the competencies. The NTA's briefing note states it is worth noting that the NTA recommendations for staffing arrangements for the active travel teams in each local authority...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: What is that based on, if the NTA does not have the granular data?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I am aware of it, but it is all the more reason to build up the in-house competencies. We have a lot of schemes coming back as if they are dropped from space, whereas a local engineer would be able to make impactful interventions in schemes, without necessarily the level of engineering that is going into them.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I will move away from active travel and to the matter of buses. I will talk a little about integrated timetabling. I lived in Germany in 1999, which was, God help us, in the previous millennium. I lived in a very small village, which was about 10 km from the local railway station. Any time I got off a train, I walked out the front door and got onto a bus seamlessly. It was integrated and...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It is so important, as the NTA knows. It is when people will actually make their modal shift. If we plan them as active travel nodes so that a person can cycle safely to them, there are good lock-ups, and they walk onto a bus or whatever, which then connects to the onward service, that is when it will really make a difference. The death of modal shift is spending 40 minutes standing at the...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: That walking and cycling index was very good.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: It was excellent.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I thank the Cathaoirleach. I am now going to name some towns in my constituency. I will revert to the bus stops issue. My God, it breaks my heart. Stradbally now has eight services in and out of Dungarvan daily, but the only way someone would know that a bus passed through Stradbally would be if he or she happened to be standing on the side of the road when it went by. There is no bus...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: The NTA has to ask the local authority for permission to stop.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Transport Authority (2 May 2024)

Marc Ó Cathasaigh: I am conscious of the time. Perhaps the NTA is hamstrung by legislation. If so, the matter falls in our court, but the idea that it would need a designer to design a bus stop-----

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