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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: You will get in again later on. We will give-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: Yes, we can agree that now if it is urgent engagement. If you want more detail you might put it in writing and we can agree it at the next-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: Is there agreement the committee should write? I agree with it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: The Ministers for education and public expenditure. Is that generally agreed by all members? It is, very good. I thank Deputy O'Rourke. Deputy Roche has four minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: Senator Scahill is next and has four minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: Senator Pauline Tully is next and has four minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: That was very interesting. I think a lot of jaws dropped when we heard the disparity with ETBs. Per pay cycle or annually, what does that disparity look like for school secretary pay? Do the witnesses have figures to hand?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: To add to Deputy O’Rourke’s proposal, I think the committee should ask the Department for the history of how it got to the point that there was an ETB clerical pay scale as opposed to those left outside. There is a big issue we are talking about but that is woeful that there are two ways. We will move on. Senator Joe Conway is next and has four minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I call Deputy Ruth Coppinger.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: The Senator has used up his time, but he will get in again in a while.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: Deputy Currie has four minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I am the last in this round of speakers. Afterwards I am going to go back down to the list. Members might get 30 seconds each to pose additional questions. We will group them and we will give the last word to our guests from Fórsa. I was a primary school teacher for 15 years. We placed huge value on our school secretary and caretaker. The school would not have functioned with...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I hope Fórsa will not have to strike and some deal is struck between now and then. However, if it does get to a point in late August where the strike is inevitable, will Fórsa in communiques to its members explain that? I have had some of them onto me anxious about that unintended consequence. Of course everyone wants better pay and conditions. They should be made aware that the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I thank the witnesses for coming in. In their wrap-up, could they illustrate how secretaries and caretakers struggle to access basic things like mortgages and health insurance? While everyone has financial constraints, their colleague down the corridor at least has the knowledge that they have a pay cheque coming in every fortnight. Could the witnesses illustrate some of the constraints...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: Just before we conclude things, we had a proposal from Deputy Darren O'Rourke, which our committee has agreed to. Arising from Senator Tully's questions about the ETBs and the responses from the witnesses, can we get agreement to find out from the Department of public expenditure the history of how this arrangement - the disparity between those on ETB central contracts and those on local...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Pension Parity and Working Conditions for School Secretaries and Caretakers: Fórsa (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: That is Deputy O'Rourke's proposal. Absolutely. On behalf of the entire committee, I warmly thank the witnesses for attending today. I also thank their colleagues in the Public Gallery and the many more who have watched from home for their engagement with the committee. We will now briefly suspend the meeting to allow the witnesses for the next session to take their seats. Is that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Proposed Redesignation of Schools for Children with Mild General Learning Disabilities: Principals of Special Schools (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I welcome everyone this morning. I ask those attending remotely to mute themselves when they are not contributing so we do not pick up any background noise or feedback. As usual, I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off entirely. Those in the precincts of Leinster House are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Proposed Redesignation of Schools for Children with Mild General Learning Disabilities: Principals of Special Schools (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I thank Mr. Browne. We welcome Mr. John Haran, who has joined the witnesses. Ms Debbie O'Neill, one of our witnesses, has a letter from a parent to put on the record of the committee's proceedings. I invite her to proceed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Proposed Redesignation of Schools for Children with Mild General Learning Disabilities: Principals of Special Schools (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I thank Ms O'Neill. On behalf of the committee, she might thank Aoife and her parents for laying bare how important all of this is to their family. The letter will be on the record of today's meeting. We will proceed to members' questions. Each Deputy and Senator has four minutes. In that time, they should allow witnesses time to respond, so they should not fully run down the clock.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Youth: Proposed Redesignation of Schools for Children with Mild General Learning Disabilities: Principals of Special Schools (10 Jul 2025)

Cathal Crowe: I thank Ms O'Neill. Deputy Dempsey might have noticed that she still had 30 seconds left on the clock. The clock has malfunctioned. Until we get it working, I will manually keep time.

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