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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: This is taken very seriously. For example, in the allocation of spectrum licences for mobile phone services, wireless broadband and so on, there is a great risk that if precautions are not taken, there could be collusion between the bidders. It has been studied in great detail and much work is done on it. It is a form of revenue protection and fraud avoidance.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I think what we saw in Ukraine was suddenly a spike in energy prices because Ukraine was responsible for delivering a lot of energy, and also a spike in food prices. Energy prices then feed through to prices all the way across the economy. So we had a sudden change. Since then there has been a dramatic fall, certainly in the wholesale price of energy, which is then coming through into our...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: We have to follow national law and European law. Approximately a year and a half ago, a general problem emerged when inflation appeared where we had never had inflation before, particularly in certain subindices. Suddenly, the price of wood, concrete or steel would go through the roof. We reached a point where it looked like certain projects would not go ahead, and there was a feeling that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I deal with procurement, e-government, chief information officer, IT, that kind of stuff.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: The longer the title, the less important the position, I think.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: It is the Office of Government Procurement so procurement policy, yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I will answer this from the point of view of e-government. I am responsible for e-government policy and making sure that people can access their records online. Of course it is up to the Minister and the Department of Health to deliver on that. Health is an incredibly important part and that question is very good and very fair. As people move through their lives they see a variety of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: Yes, we are. The reason is that it is better for the patients and is better for the doctors.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I expect their app will be launched later this year. It is already in the pilot phase. I have been given a demonstration of it. The agency is working on it but, again, it is about the balance, as Deputy Tóibín stated earlier, between too much optimism and over-cautiousness. If the people working in the health service are too worried that they are going to deliver something-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: About how accommodation was procured during the pandemic? Does the Cathaoirleach mean, for example, for isolation and so on?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: During an emergency, the normal procurement rules do not apply. One does try to get the best value for money but does not have to go through the full formal process. That makes sense. If one is in the middle of a pandemic and lives are at stake, one obviously has to act at speed and get the best price one can. For the Cathaoirleach's information, the leasing and acquisition of property is...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I absolutely agree. The sums of money involved are very large. It is important that we are getting value for money. It is also important that we are stuck with what made sense during an emergency and rolling it forward for years. The Government made a clear decision at Cabinet recently to move away from emergency provision of accommodation and towards a more structured or planned approach.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: Any kind of Government administration or procurement system like that should absolutely be fair to the participants. It should be transparent and so on. I accept that. I am not aware that companies went all the way through the process, only to receive an email to say no at the end. If the Cathaoirleach wants me to follow that up with the Department of Children, Equality, Disability,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I would be happy to look into any specific issue the Cathaoirleach has.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I would like to know more of the details of that specific project before I comment on it. I accept that the system should be fair-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: -----and transparent and, in general, it should tell people the reasons for a project not proceeding.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2024
Vote 11 – Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (Revised)
Vote 12 – Superannuation and Retired Allowances (Revised)
Vote 14 – State Laboratory (Revised)
Vote 15 - the Secret Service (Revised)
Vote 17 – Public Appointments Service (Revised)
Vote 18 – National Shared Services Office (Revised)
Vote 19 -the Office of the Ombudsman (Revised)
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement (Revised)
Vote 43 – Office of the Government Chief Information Officer (Revised)
(31 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: Regarding the State being taken advantage of by wealthy of conglomerates, most of our procurement goes to SMEs and Irish companies. That is the reality of procurement in Ireland. Where there are large amounts of money involved, there will always be some small number of participants that try to defraud the system. There is also the possibility of multiple bidders colluding so that they...

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions: Regulatory Bodies (25 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: Given the importance of the electronic communications sector to both the economy and society, robust regulation of networks and services in a manner that enables investment, ensures operational resilience and trust and appropriate consumer protection requires a fit-for-purpose communications regulator. Both my officials and I meet regularly with ComReg to discuss a range of policy and...

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions: Regulatory Bodies (25 Jan 2024)

Ossian Smyth: I am glad to hear that the Deputy has taken the time to meet ComReg. It has 156 employees at the moment and has sanction for 177. ComReg came to my Department looking for an additional 55 employees. It was looking for specific increases in grades and salaries and so on, and that is under consideration at the moment. However, it does have sanction to move to 177. The Deputy mentioned...

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