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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Okay. Mr. Downes mentioned that trade is an EU competency. When the occupied territories Bill was brought forward previously, we were told the EU-Israel association agreement was one reason it could not be progressed. Mr. Downes in his opening statement, however, was explicit that occupied territories are not reflected and are not, in fact, subject to the EU-Israel association agreement....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It just seems to be somewhat of a contradiction with some of the messaging. The legal advice that we had from Professor Takis Tridimas and others with regard to the occupied territories Bill has always been, effectively, that there is no legal basis for trading with occupied territories. Is it the case that there is no legal basis for trading with occupied territories?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I will continue with my questions. I will have to listen back to the answers. I hope other members of the committee will be able to pick up on the answers if I am not able to. As mentioned in the opening statement, electronic components are one of the main trading sectors. We know that Ireland’s export to Israel of dual-use components that have a potential military purpose grew...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is more productive if we have-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is just so we can build the discussion. There are some questions of fact-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: However, that does not allow for trade with a country that would be occupying a territory or for a country to trade in goods from a territory in which it does not have a legal basis for occupation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Okay, that is not what the legal advice we would look at would say. We will save that and move forward with the other questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: There has been a sevenfold increase in them.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I will interrupt because we have such limited time. There are many things goods may be used for. We know there is a sevenfold increase that has coincided with a military action for goods that have a military functionality.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I am conscious of others as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Sure.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is hopefully against a background of urgency for the fact that we should be doing all we can. I will pass over to other members now.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Okay. I will go through all my questions, with respect.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is just that it is a sevenfold increase. Again, I am asking whether there have been extra measures, not what the general process is, given the alarming increase.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: The feedback message we got very strongly in the previous session was that it had exclusions with regard to fossil fuels and cluster munitions because it was politically required to do so legally. However, when we asked at that time - of course, there seems to have been a change of policy in the last couple of weeks - the representatives made it very clear that they wait for guidance,...

Seanad: An Bille um an Aonú Leasú is Daichead ar an mBunreacht (An Comhaontú maidir le Cúirt Aontaithe um Paitinní), 2024: An Dara Céim - Forty-first Amendment of the Constitution (Agreement on a Unified Patent Court) Bill 2024: Second Stage (21 Mar 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I pushed strongly for "Yes" and "Yes" on the last referendums and was deeply disappointed with the results. It is probably one of the biggest votes for inequality since the citizenship referendum. I do not believe that was the intention of all those who voted "No" but that is the effect. The care proposal was disappointing but I look to everything on balance. I weigh up my positions. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (20 Mar 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I just have-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (20 Mar 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: First of all, for any company that is engaged in investments in illegally occupied territories, that is an issue for that company. If being divested pushes that company to get its house in order then that is appropriate. If they are very large companies, they are not going to go bust and stop employing people and do completely different work in completely different places based on a measure...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (20 Mar 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: -----we do not engage. There are many things we could all do illegally to make money. However, the point is that people should not be doing things illegally and making money on things that are not just illegal on paper, but illegal on core human rights and international law. They are illegal and costing lives. Therefore, that is a reasonable bar to set ourselves in terms of how business...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (20 Mar 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Sorry, could Mr. Gilvarry elaborate on that? What is the problem with the free movement of capital? Does he believe it is legally acceptable to invest in occupied territories? I am not asking for his personal opinion, of course. Is it legally acceptable to invest in illegally occupied territories?

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