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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I thank Mr. Downes for the presentation. I will deal with this in two sections. First, I will look at the EU-Israel association agreement, to which Mr. Downes referred. He mentioned that there was a request for a suspension of the agreement. It is explicitly clear that Article 2 of the agreement has conditionalities or requirements around respect for human rights and democratic...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Well, I will finish all of my questions in that case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I rarely occupy much time at this committee compared with-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: With respect, I cleared it with the Cathaoirleach that I would go first, and we usually have a practice where we can have some back and forth discussion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It will take another five minutes to go through all my questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: In his opening statement, Mr. Downes referred to the exclusion of goods from the occupied territories from being given preferential treatment. I ask him to clarify, from his figures, whether it is the case that trade with the occupied territories is not reflected in the €13 billion in trade and the €7 billion in imported goods?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: That is not included in those figures.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Okay. Mr. Downes mentioned that trade is an EU competency. When the occupied territories Bill was brought forward previously, we were told the EU-Israel association agreement was one reason it could not be progressed. Mr. Downes in his opening statement, however, was explicit that occupied territories are not reflected and are not, in fact, subject to the EU-Israel association agreement....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It just seems to be somewhat of a contradiction with some of the messaging. The legal advice that we had from Professor Takis Tridimas and others with regard to the occupied territories Bill has always been, effectively, that there is no legal basis for trading with occupied territories. Is it the case that there is no legal basis for trading with occupied territories?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I will continue with my questions. I will have to listen back to the answers. I hope other members of the committee will be able to pick up on the answers if I am not able to. As mentioned in the opening statement, electronic components are one of the main trading sectors. We know that Ireland’s export to Israel of dual-use components that have a potential military purpose grew...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is more productive if we have-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is just so we can build the discussion. There are some questions of fact-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: However, that does not allow for trade with a country that would be occupying a territory or for a country to trade in goods from a territory in which it does not have a legal basis for occupation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Okay, that is not what the legal advice we would look at would say. We will save that and move forward with the other questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Illegal Israeli Settlements Divestment Bill 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (10 Apr 2024)

Alice-Mary Higgins: There has been a sevenfold increase in them.

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