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Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I am on the Leinster House campus. I welcome our guests. It was wonderful to hear from all of them and their opening statements were good and insightful. Like my colleagues I wish Shane and Carlos the very best over the coming weeks and months as they begin their journey. As everyone will attest it is a nerve-wracking road to parenthood so I wish them the best of luck over the coming...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Is Dr. Bracken proposing a certification model or just an advisory model?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Is she proposing the Irish regulatory authority certifies particular countries and says these are the countries that are adhering to best practice and that we advise you to go to? Is the regulator certifying these standards are definitely being met there or is it that from what we can gather, these are the best countries to go to?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Thus it is more of an advisory and information service for people based in Ireland who are looking at international surrogacy options.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Okay. I just wanted to see exactly what Dr. Bracken was proposing because there was reference made to a kind of "green list" and a fast-track system for people who went to certain countries. The point of view I am coming from is we have many people in a limbo at the moment. I do not want us to inadvertently create another limbo for people such that there is one list of countries that allow...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Dr. Bracken is not proposing a kind of green list.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Okay, so it is up to any set of parents to come back with their child and say they were in X country and these are my affidavits and these are the qualifications of everybody that dealt with it. Every family can therefore avail of the system Dr. Bracken is proposing as best practice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank Dr. Bracken for that extra information. On the declaration of parentage and the post-birth or pre-birth transfer of parentage, as the committee is examining international surrogacy, is this an issue that is outside our scope because we in Ireland do not have the ability to dictate whether another country looks at parentage post-birth or pre-birth? In the situation we were talking...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Okay. I thank Dr. Bracken for answering that. I have a final question. The Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022, which is dealing with many other assisted human reproduction issues, is a health related Bill. Dr. Bracken spoke at the start of her presentation about how the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015 has created two different tiers of parents - some who are...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank Dr. Bracken. If I could ask one other question-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Could I ask a really quick question?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank the witnesses. The discussion we have had has been interesting. I will touch on the issue Senator Ruane raised. I practised for a long number of years as a family solicitor and came across the presumption of parentage. When a woman is married, has formed a new relationship and has a child with a new partner, she needs her husband to rebut the presumption that he is the father....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I understand that but has there ever been a situation where a couple are living in Ireland and want to bring their child back to Ireland to live but the biological parent is a citizen of, say, Brazil ? Are we depending on Brazil to issue a travel document for that child to come back to live in Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I am asking what happens if the child is not considered an Irish citizen. Let us say an Irish citizen and a Brazilian citizen are married and living in Ireland. The Brazilian man has not yet naturalised as an Irish citizen but the couple have a child and the man is the biological father. The family is established in Ireland and intends to live in Ireland. Are we relying on a third country...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Has that situation arisen, to Ms Byrne's knowledge?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I understand that. Is it a common scenario?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy: Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (28 Apr 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I am thinking of the current delays in naturalising people who have established lives and relationships here. We have huge backlogs there so I am trying to see if that has occurred already and if Ms Byrne could suggest any workarounds for that?

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