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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: So Dr. Boylan does not agree with what his two colleagues said at the committee meeting yesterday.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: We will have an opportunity to put that to the master of the National Maternity Hospital, Holles Street, later today so I will ask him that. I thank Dr. Boylan for his responses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Could I ask Mr. McGarr to speak about a phrase he used: “gift it to a third party”? Does he not accept that the existing National Maternity Hospital, at Holles Street, will in the deal be given to the State and that the State can then sell it or put it to another use? I refer to the National Maternity Hospital itself contributing something to the-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: They are happy with the service and nobody is arguing the service provided by excellent clinicians, midwives and doctors-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Sorry, does Deputy Shortall have a question or she just-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank our guests for coming in. I direct my questions to Ms Murphy. People here have referred to her expertise. For the record, will she outline her position in Mason Hayes and Curran and her qualifications?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Would Ms Murphy classify these agreements as ones bound by Canon Law, as has been stated by previous witnesses?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: These agreements have been referred to as being labyrinthine in nature and complex in structure. Would Ms Murphy class them in that way, from her experience of being a partner in a commercial law firm?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: In Ms Murphy's experience, they are not overly weighty or voluminous.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: This provision is to ensure that the buildings on the site will be operated as a charity in future.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Regarding the scenario proposed earlier, involving a situation where one hospital started taking in an overflow of patients, does Ms Murphy think that would trigger this clause?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank Ms Murphy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Okay. My colleague, Deputy Lahart, had started touching on the notion proffered earlier that perhaps seepage from St. Vincent's Hospital, when there is spare bed capacity, could somehow trigger the €850,000 annual rent clause. In Ms Murphy's professional opinion, would that trigger it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank the Chairman and all our guests for attending. I have a few questions and will try to get through them as quickly as possible. I will ask Professor Higgins about terminations in St. Vincent's currently. I am aware that terminations are usually carried out in maternity units but are sometimes carried out in non-maternity units. Have terminations been carried out in St. Vincent's in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: Those are circumstances where the woman's life is not at risk.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I thank the witness. My next question is for Mr. John O'Donoghue because it is a legal question. There has been much talk about the option of a compulsory purchase order, CPO, of the land. Will Mr. O'Donoghue bring us through the legal process and tests used by the court when deciding a CPO application?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: My understanding of the CPO process is that if a viable alternative is available, such as a long lease of 299 years, a CPO would not be granted. There is a very high test for parties to reach in circumstances where a very long lease has been offered at nominal rent. I will touch on the St. Mary's site and building a hospital on the adjacent site. What would the clinicians' opinion be of that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: It would be an inferior option.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Lorraine Clifford-Lee: I have a few other questions but I am happy to move on and allow in another member. I thank the witnesses.

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