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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I spoke to the Chairman before lunch about the list of health supports. Is it the case that these are the headings under which the witnesses can claim or is it the case that when the receipt is presented the witnesses slot it in and they might create a new category?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Regarding a value for money assessment, when Caranua spends X amount on a lease or housing support, does it follow up on that and decide whether, say, the insulation work helped or save on bills or is that just done and dusted in that moment?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It is all qualitative. Do the witnesses do a financial assessment, as such, on the spend?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: We have come full circle back to our role here, which is scrutiny of taxpayers' money-----

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: -----or money spent.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It is money, and it is our people.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Being mindful never gave the witnesses a clear audit. Do they know what I mean?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Mindfulness never set us free from audits.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Just because there are two or three quotes does not necessarily mean it is value for money. The witnesses are saying that they have not been doing value for money assessments on the spend.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: What Ms Dwyer is saying is that when it is being closed, it is assessed. What I was talking about was more qualitative. Does Caranua do any financial assessment? Does it say that it gave Mary €60,000 and that it has had so many positive outcomes? Does it do any of that type of assessment?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Caranua has never done that. It has paid for work done on a building but no one has ever gone out to check the work was done.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Is there any auditing of invoices?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It was an invoice but not a receipt.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: For example, let us say we want a new kitchen suitable for somebody with particular needs. The builder gives a quote for €10,000 and the quote document comes into Caranua and it pays the money before the work is done. Is that it?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: Does Caranua pay all the money or a deposit? One would never pay a builder upfront. Talk me through that.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: We will just take the example of the €10,000.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: A quote comes in for €10,000 for a new kitchen and Caranua approves it. The builder wants to start so Caranua gives €2,000 or €3,000 until it reaches €10,000. Caranua never receives a completion notice for work done or itemised bills.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: I thought the Comptroller and Auditor General said that we did not have receipts and that was a problem.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: It was for more than 50%, though.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2017 (17 Oct 2019)

Kate O'Connell: All the time.

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