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Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I will quote further from the briefing note because the Minister comes in for criticism, time and again. The note states that a key theme at Cabinet committee was the lack of a culture of financial control in the acute hospitals and the lack of a commitment by the Minister for Health to constructively address the spending problems. That is a real critique of the Minister's performance. I...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: So I am clear, what I read out was that there was a lack of a commitment on the part of the Minister for Health to constructively address the spending problems.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I am very short of time. The point is the Minister does not accept that criticism.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I have a copy of a letter that is in the public domain and which the Minister sent to the Minister for public expenditure and reform after he had received a letter from Mr. Bernard Gloster, the head of the HSE. In it, the Minister states that the substantial majority of the additional spend by the HSE this year, and potentially next year, is and will be a direct consequence of very high...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Can I come back to the Minister on that, please? I accept what he said but this is my difficulty. The head of the HSE, the head of the Department and the Minister have come into this committee several times over the course of this year in the context of the overspend in health this year. We know that it will be in the region of €1.5 billion and, in cash, just under €1...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: But we usually-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Just so we are clear, is the Cathaoirleach saying that officials cannot answer questions?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I want to recap on some of the conversations we had during my first contribution. I am sure the Minister will agree that while he has his job to do, we have our job to do, which is to hold him, the Department of Health and the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform to account when it comes to the funding for health in 2023 and the consequences of...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: The meeting took place on 4 October and was attended by the Minister, Stephen Donnelly, the Minister of State, Anne Rabbitte, the Minister of State, Hildegarde Naughton, Robert Watt and officials.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: That is all right. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, was there so.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Anyway, the note states that the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform's position is that the very maximum affordable settlement for health is €808 million into the base. That was its starting point. It was also its finishing point. Therefore, whatever negotiations took place, the Department of Health got not a cent extra - that is a fact -...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I know about the one-off funding.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I know but I am talking about core funding.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: I want to respond to the Minister because it is worse than that. I have the notes here in front of me and I want to repeat some of them back to him. The Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform appeared before the finance committee. He illuminated a bit more maybe on what I would call not just tensions but very stark...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: When Ms McGirr says that, who was it sent to? Who sent the letter from the Department of Health?

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Bernard Gloster's memo.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Moloney stated, at the meeting of the finance committee: I have not seen that letter. It may have been passed to the Minister but, to the best of my knowledge, I have not seen it. When he asked further he said, "I do not recall that being discussed with me", as in, that letter.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Mr. Moloney stated "I have not seen that letter."

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: Hang on a second. No, we have had a very serious issue with the funding of the health service. They go to great lengths in all of their notes to say the sharp differences they have between the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, and the HSE and the Department. The head of the HSE has set out in stark terms what went on in his perspective, sent...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary)
(29 Nov 2023)

David Cullinane: It was put to Mr. Moloney that health inflation ranged between 10% and 17%.

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