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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: I can understand that part but the vulture capitalists who could purchase this are not exposed to the day to day realities of needing to do new business here. I suggest that Mr. Reid should reconsider how the Department will safeguard people from extortionate variable rates, whether that be trying to get the financial institutions to underpin that the variable rate cannot go above and beyond...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: This question is to Mr. Hogan. Why would they appeal? If someone enters into a variable rate contract and the owner of the loan decides they want to increase the variable rate, what is the appeal one can make?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: In terms of the best chance one has, unless one can justify increasing the variable rate-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: -----it should not happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: That gives me some level of comfort but it does not corner off the idea that if somebody is overexposed with regard to currency exposures, etc. - the blended portfolio - and if they need to increase it to keep their ship afloat, they can justify it perhaps on those grounds. I am giving Mr. Reid the worst case scenario.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: I thank the witnesses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Does this change anything that has been done previously by the banks in securitising mortgage loans? It is the same fundamental principle. If a person has entered into a contract with an organisation that is regulated by the Irish State, does it matter where the money or the block book is sold on to? Is the relationship still with the initial organisation, even if a servicer is put in place?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: I am asking a fundamental question. If a person has entered into a contract with a bank or institution in this country that is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland, is it the case that this initial contract takes precedence over everything else that happens underneath it or in front of it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: I assume they will be restricted by the laws that would have applied to the regulator of the institution with which the contract was entered into.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Yes. I just wanted to establish that as a basis. It is not ground-breaking in any huge shape or form. My question relates more to interest rates than anything else. If a bank has sold on a book, and if that book is part of a larger portfolio which has a cost of funds that is blended from different currencies, etc., and if it needs to increase in order to break even, what level of control...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: I will use an example. If every mortgage that was sold by AIB in 2004 was put into a book, securitised and sold to an American institution, and if that institution subsequently decided to increase the interest rate which applies to that section of the loans, would AIB have to follow through on that decision?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: I should have made it clear that this example relates to mortgages that are variable.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Who will set that? This is what I am asking.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: The new owner can set the variable rate for AIB's-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Even though AIB is just-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: It originated the loan and is the administrator of the loan at this time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Is that not worrying, given that the purchaser of a portfolio like this might not have a front-end office here? It might be using other facilities, such as those of AIB. Is it not in a position to do more profiteering than anybody else?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Using this example, can AIB have a say in what interest rate is applied to a loan after it has sold it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Business of Joint Committee
General Scheme of Sale of Loan Books to Unregulated Third Parties Bill 2014: Discussion
(3 Dec 2014)

Arthur Spring: Okay.

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