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Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Does the Office of the Attorney General have a publicly available book of indicative fees for pleadings by senior and junior counsel?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: The other argument is that if they were made public, rather than undercutting there would be a competitive field in which people who have the experience could offer to do the work for a lower fee and save the Office of the Attorney General money while doing the work well.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: While I am not saying cost should be the only factor, Mr. O'Daly is saying it is impossible for somebody to compete on cost.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Has Mr. O'Daly not just proved my point that there is no cost competition between practitioners offering a service? At the beginning of the meeting, we had a discussion about how UCD is not putting contracts under €60,000 out to public tender, which it should be. The State makes plumbers, electricians and all kinds of small businesses compete against each other in order to save...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Mr. O'Daly is conflating a little. No procurement process of any kind says that costs are the be-all and end-all. Often, in procurement processes, it is not the lowest price that will win. However, cost is a factor based on a number of matters. First, there would be competence, record of experience in the business, number of projects done and completed on time, expertise, relationship,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: There are two pools. There are the 800, first, who have handed in a sheet to Mr. O'Daly's office and then there are the 300 of those who get it, but then there are the broader 200 or 300. I would not know if there is anecdotal evidence that there is no point in applying for State work as it is a closed shop.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Let us be frank. If something goes wrong in the legal profession, someone is seriously discomfited. There are liberty issues. It is very serious. It is not to be likened to some other professions. This is something we constantly hear. Everybody is shocked when they hear about the cost of the legal fees, both counsel fees and solicitors' fees, associated with a case. Millions of euro is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Typically, how many constitutional cases would there be in a year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: How many of those would reach the Supreme Court?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: I do not want Mr. Donoghue to feel left out. He mentioned the 32 local State solicitors who work for his office outside of the Dublin region. How are those appointed and what is the process for getting value for money there?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: On the new appointments, how long are they for?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: I suppose that can go to a firm. It is not necessarily an individual person, is it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: How many of the State solicitors have one of these lifetime contracts?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Is each new contract individually negotiated? Is it, similar to with Mr. O'Daly, that there is an indicative framework that Mr. Donoghue works from?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: What is the criteria for winning the contract?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: Is it who is best as opposed to who is cheapest?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: It is a situation similar to that outlined in the exchange I had with Mr. O'Daly where everyone would accept that it should be a person of eminence, good repute and good standing in the legal profession. If there are two or three solicitors who match those criteria, should they not be free to compete on price?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: I will get given out to for this, but even as a Labour Party Deputy I must say that sometimes the market is best at determining the price for something.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 3: Office of the Attorney General
Vote 5: Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions
Vote 6: Office of the Chief State Solicitor
(12 Nov 2015)

Derek Nolan: It has never been considered in the office?

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