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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: What monitoring is in place? Does the Department monitor what the employer would do with someone participating in JobBridge and what training is being given, or is that overly bureaucratic?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I support that and thank the Secretary General. I believe that a real issue exists in respect of Tús. As I am a tax consultant by profession, I understand the taxation system very well. However, the Secretary General will appreciate that someone who is participating in a Tús programme is still in receipt of social welfare. I acknowledge that he or she is working and gaining...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: The Secretary General can appreciate that if one is getting €20 more per week to go out to work and one is coming home with less and one still is getting paid by the Department of Social Protection-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: It is my understanding that in the CE scheme, the supervisor gets paid that amount. He or she pays the employee portion of the PRSI, but it is allowed in the cost of the scheme, if the Secretary General knows what I mean.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Will the Department please do so? It is an issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: My point is that an allowance or something should be given to the people who are providing the Tús programme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: This is something that could be examined and I would appreciate that. I have one question on fraud and how social protection payments are made. As I am working from memory, my percentages might be slightly awry, but my understanding is that 45% of all payments go through An Post, while 55% go directly to the bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Okay. I have heard that in the case of the payments going to An Post, approximately €7 million is coming back to the Department where errors have been made. However, this is not happening when the payments go directly into the bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Jobseeker payments cannot be paid into someone's bank account.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I wish to ask about a subject about which one hears a lot on the ground, especially when one talks to business owners. It relates to dealing with people who are on the black market - that is, people who are in receipt of jobseeker's payments but who also are working. Everyone is familiar with the sectors about which I am talking. If people wish to give information to the Department, is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I thank Ms O'Donoghue and her team for coming before the committee. I wish to focus on activation measures, fraud and domiciliary care. I understand that there is only 3% activation in respect of the Gateway scheme. I am not sure if an update is available in the context of what is currently happening with the scheme. JobBridge has attracted mixed reviews. Is Ms O'Donoghue in a position...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: None of those are under our remit. I refer to Bus Éireann and similar companies from the commercial point of view.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: However, we can go after companies and private organisations which tender for contracts and ask them questions.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Does the Deputy mean all of them?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: It seems to make no sense that we cannot investigate those bodies but can go after any company that wins a tender and ask it to tell us how it is spending that money and the way in which it funds the rest of its organisation.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: To follow on from what Deputy Deasy says, I have great concern about tendering and the inability of small companies to access that. There has been work done on it. With all due respect to Deputy Fleming, however, is that really our remit? Is it not within the remit of the committee with responsibility for jobs?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I have a question. In respect of what we are doing, does that mean that we can ask any private company that tenders for a contract from the State and gets allocated money to come in and explain how it is spending it? If we wanted to bring in all the LEADER companies who receive full funding from the State, could we ask them about how they spend their money and pay their employees?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: In respect of what we are doing with the CRC and Rehab, I appreciate that it is an important issue and that the charity sector needs to be addressed but I am concerned about where we are going and what we are opening up. My understanding is that our job is to oversee the money the State spends. When it has been allocated in a tender, my understanding is that it has gone outside our remit....

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I never said that.

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