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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I am talking about it in general.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: Would Ms McGuinness explain the process?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: On the last occasion, the HSE was asked to fill out various forms and we were waiting for them all to come back.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I accept that. There is a lot more that could have been done-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: -----that would be an awful lot simpler. Ms McGuinness talks about accounts and not getting information. In the service level agreement, why does the HSE not design a particular template of accounts that would provide it with all the information it needs at the end of the year and also a template on what the governance of all these organisations should be? That would clean up so much of this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: Does the HSE provide a chart of accounts for organisations to fill in in a particular way?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: While I accept that they all have their own audit because they are separate legal entities and that the audited accounts will be done in a particular way which is within auditing standards, surely it would be simple to provide a chart of accounts that HSE needed information on. It would get bank balances and all the other information that the HSE would need. Such a chart would be simple to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I thank Ms McGuinness.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: The witnesses are all welcome this afternoon. In particular, I thank Mr. Hamilton Goulding for his attendance and for being so open and honest. I wish him the best of luck in whatever ventures to which he goes. I also wish Mr. Timmins and Ms Manahan the best of luck in the CRC, and it is to be hoped this episode can soon be put behind us all. I wish to ask Mr. John Cregan a question on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: In respect of the severance pay and the obligation to reduce his salary from €240,000 to €86,000 after 25 years of service.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: Yes, but in light of legal contracts-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: Yes, but getting to the salary recommended by the HSE would have reduced it again. Moreover, in line with the fact that the employment arrangement was with the CRC, as opposed to the HSE-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I accept that public pay must be reduced across all the organisations and so on. However, does Mr. Cregan not think it would make far more sense for the HSE to work with these organisations and their boards to try to help them get to a stage where this can happen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: Had the HSE engaged with the CRC beforehand, as in appointing someone to help the clinic to manage the process that needed to be reached?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: That is not what I asked. My point is that all of this happened in 2009. I accept that what happened before then was all different. However, the HSE was put in place and a big change happened in 2009 in respect of how these organisations were to be run and what their public pay, which was to be brought into line, was to be. However it appears as though this decision was made and the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report and Appropriation Accounts of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I accept that and I accept it was unfortunate that this did not happen. However, I am trying to get to an overall point with regard to what we are trying to do here. The section 38 organisations per sedo a great deal of good work on the ground and the people they help, as well as their families, probably are the most vulnerable in society. I accept a stage must be reached where public pay...

Select Committee on Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation: Friendly Societies and Industrial and Provident Societies (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: I apologise for having to leave as I must go to a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts.

Mental Health Services: Motion (Resumed) [Private Members] (2 Jul 2014)

Áine Collins: Over the years, we have been trying to deal with many and various injustices of the past, issues like child abuse, mother and children homes, and the Magdalen Laundries. As a society our attitude towards mental health has been appalling. We stigmatised people with mental health problems and in many cases committed them to institutional care. Care was not the motivation. We simply locked...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Jun 2014)

Áine Collins: Does the Chair know when the report was finalised?

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