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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I appreciate that and I understand where we are going with Rehab and the CRC but my question was on a bigger scale. Does our remit allow us to investigate where money has been spent by a Department and the contract has been tendered out to a private individual or company? Can we then bring that individual or company in and ask them how they spent that money?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: My question is whether we could extend that?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: For example, I think there is something happening in one of the Westmeath LEADER companies today where there was-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: It involved one of the Westmeath LEADER companies where €7 million was not allocated. Would it be within our remit to ask this company to come in?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: None of those are under our remit. I refer to Bus Éireann and similar companies from the commercial point of view.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: However, we can go after companies and private organisations which tender for contracts and ask them questions.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Does the Deputy mean all of them?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: It seems to make no sense that we cannot investigate those bodies but can go after any company that wins a tender and ask it to tell us how it is spending that money and the way in which it funds the rest of its organisation.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: To follow on from what Deputy Deasy says, I have great concern about tendering and the inability of small companies to access that. There has been work done on it. With all due respect to Deputy Fleming, however, is that really our remit? Is it not within the remit of the committee with responsibility for jobs?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I thank Ms O'Donoghue and her team for coming before the committee. I wish to focus on activation measures, fraud and domiciliary care. I understand that there is only 3% activation in respect of the Gateway scheme. I am not sure if an update is available in the context of what is currently happening with the scheme. JobBridge has attracted mixed reviews. Is Ms O'Donoghue in a position...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: While I appreciate the Department might not achieve its target by the middle of the year, is the Secretary General hopeful that it will be achieved by the end of the year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Although there has been some cynicism in the media about JobBridge, it is actually working.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: What monitoring is in place? Does the Department monitor what the employer would do with someone participating in JobBridge and what training is being given, or is that overly bureaucratic?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: I support that and thank the Secretary General. I believe that a real issue exists in respect of Tús. As I am a tax consultant by profession, I understand the taxation system very well. However, the Secretary General will appreciate that someone who is participating in a Tús programme is still in receipt of social welfare. I acknowledge that he or she is working and gaining...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: The Secretary General can appreciate that if one is getting €20 more per week to go out to work and one is coming home with less and one still is getting paid by the Department of Social Protection-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: It is my understanding that in the CE scheme, the supervisor gets paid that amount. He or she pays the employee portion of the PRSI, but it is allowed in the cost of the scheme, if the Secretary General knows what I mean.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Will the Department please do so? It is an issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: My point is that an allowance or something should be given to the people who are providing the Tús programme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: This is something that could be examined and I would appreciate that. I have one question on fraud and how social protection payments are made. As I am working from memory, my percentages might be slightly awry, but my understanding is that 45% of all payments go through An Post, while 55% go directly to the bank.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 37 - Social Protection
Chapter 16 - Expenditure on Welfare and Employment Schemes
Chapter 17 - Regularity of Social Welfare Payments
Chapter 18 - Welfare Overpayment Debts
Chapter 19 - Domiciliary Care Allowance
Chapter 20 - Invalidity Pension
Social Insurance Fund Annual Accounts 2012
(1 May 2014)

Áine Collins: Okay. I have heard that in the case of the payments going to An Post, approximately €7 million is coming back to the Department where errors have been made. However, this is not happening when the payments go directly into the bank.

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