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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: I thought this was first diagnosed in 2008. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: When was that made available? Was that in 2008 or in 2012?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: This is now 2013. Almost €4 million has been paid out, and I understand most of them continue to be paid. The HSE has an extremely difficult budget, which I am sure I do not have to tell the witnesses about. Most of these section 38 agencies deal with disability. As we know, that budget has been rigorously cut. Donations have been given to section 38 agencies from genuine people...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Are they continuing to be paid every month by the HSE? All of them are being paid a substantial sum of money. A total of €1.6 million alone is paid to section 38 agencies. I do not know how much is being paid to section 39 agencies but that is almost 11% of the HSE budget. They are not in compliance. Are they still being paid to deliver services?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Is there a standard chart of accounts for all the section 38 agencies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: I understand they will be under the Companies Act but if they are covered under a service level agreement, I would have thought it would be part of the audit process to ensure the service level agreement is being enacted.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Is that something the HSE will examine with a view to putting in a standard chart of accounts where we can see everybody's salary and what is being paid from where?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: I appreciate that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: I am aware of that. As Mr. O'Brien knows, I was here that day.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Will that extend to section 38 and section 39 agencies?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Is it correct that many of the section 39 agencies are covered by the pay agreements that apply to the Haddington Road agreement?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: That does not seem to be understood on the ground from my understanding of it. Will the HSE make available the details of the non-compliant organisations?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Have any other business cases been submitted to the HSE and are they being considered with regard to making-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Are business cases being submitted that make these allowances appropriate?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: The HSE has not yet received any business case.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Can we get details of that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Can we get the details of the business case it made?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Does Ms Lawlor not believe that is of public interest?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
(27 Nov 2013)

Áine Collins: Ms Lawlor has received it but she has not made any decision on whether it is appropriate.

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