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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I make the case that we already have a significantly bigger State in the aftermath of the pandemic. As I look to the time ahead, the number of people working in our public service alone will cross 400,000 at a point this year. Of course, it will cross 400,000 people in the context of a population that is also larger than it was a number of years ago. If the Chair was to ask me what all of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: The most recent update we have prepared in regard to compliance and potential costs is the paper that was published in 2022 by my Department. We did so in conjunction with the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications. It laid out a range of different compliance scenarios, including the most extreme cost which is the risk that the compliance cost by 2030 could rise to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: That is the great value of the climate action plan. The current draft climate action plan is out for consultation at the moment. That details where we are on a sectoral basis and where we are with the delivery, or indeed the non-delivery, of targets. The action plan, and all the work that goes into the preparation of its draft, is having a significant effect on the discussions under way in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Deputy, or Senator.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I will address all the members of the committee as Deputies, as to be equal. To address the first question, if I was to pick any area that I believe is exceptionally important to the future of the NDP and how we can make it more sustainable, I would probably pick one process and two projects. The process would be the thorough implementation of the revised infrastructure guidelines that I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: The Senator makes a fair point. I agree entirely with his point around how we couch and talk to ourselves and the country about our response to the great climate challenge. During the week, I came across a phrase in a book that mentioned the concept of a "transition trough"-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: A transition trough.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: It referred to the challenge in politics of a situation whereby costs are seismic and threatening and pose such a challenge to all of us but are in the future. While the build-up to those terrible moments is incremental, the decisions that are needed to minimise that difficulty are significant with big costs in the here and now. The climate issue is the leading example of that. Therefore,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Senator for her questions. There is a lot in her contribution and I will quickly address each of the points mentioned. First, significant progress has been made in ensuring that green and climate issues receive a far higher level of profile in procurement discussions. I attribute much of the credit in this regard to the work that the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: With respect, I do not sure that is what the Senator said in her question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: Sure, but the Senator should consider the significant changes made in procurement practices. The Government has published cost control and carbon reporting templates and they are now a mandatory part of procurement processes. When capital projects are being considered now, there is the option to report the embodied carbon during construction. While this is not currently mandatory, the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Deputy for his question. The Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, is looking at how we can provide public transport connectivity through rail to more parts of our country, including where the Deputy referred to, through the strategic rail review that is now under way. That will have to be considered by the Government in the future. There are many other different public transport...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes and one reason for the delays the Deputy referred to and what is a common theme in some of the questions put to me today is the length of time involved in moving some of these projects through the planning process. The reasons for this are many. A big factor that I acknowledge as one of the reasons has been the need to supply more resources and support to An Bord Pleanála to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: Sure. On the Deputy's point on the evaluation of business cases and the length of time involved in that, we have to look at how we have conducted our work, what works and how we can do it even better in the future. The point I respectfully make to the Deputy is when we get to the point when BusConnects starts being built, for those of us who have been involved in it and have seen some of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: Is the Senator looking for my commitment regarding doing the work?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Senator for raising a very fair point. I was exchanging questions with my colleagues, as I am reasonably sure that we have done that work and that ii has been done a lot more recently than 2020. It may be the case that it has not been published yet. I will go away and check that and come back to the Senator on that. I accept that the impact of those schemes and what their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I will have to come back to the Senator with an answer on that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I will, certainly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Climate Action: Review of Climate Action Plan 2023: Minister for Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform (15 Feb 2024)

Paschal Donohoe: I will deal with each question in turn. Do I believe there should be two different processes of business cases, one for sustainable projects and another for projects that should be less sustainable? Unfortunately, I will disappoint the Chairperson and say no. I think what would happen is that most Government Departments would argue that their projects are sustainable and that they should...

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