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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: I thank Dr. Byrne and invite Dr. Keilthy to make her opening statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: We will start with Dr. Byrne and the SEAI and then-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Maybe Mr. Randles could give us a break down of this. An application is submitted and then someone goes out and does an assessment. How long does it take for that element?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: It is taking up to 12 months for the survey aspect to happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Then, based on the survey, a lot of the older houses get ruled out at that stage, if as Deputy Ó Cuív has said, they are made of stone and so forth. How many are filtered out at that stage? After the 12-month period, is it another eight months before a contractor is on site? Is that what we are talking about, on average?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Can you give us an indication of the numbers? There are 16,480 properties on which an assessment has been carried out. Are they on the waiting list now and will they be waiting for eight months? How many are waiting for the initial assessment?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Can you come back to the committee with those breakdowns?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Is there any other response? Does Dr. Byrne want to come in here?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: The Deputy is asking Ms Petrie about the length of a long-term lease and what her definition of "long" is.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: On the practicalities of that, if we are going to introduce another new definition of a long-term lease, it could cause complications in getting across what is a very positive proposal and initiative from the Society of St Vincent de Paul. It would probably make sense that it would align with the refurbishment grant where, correct me if I am wrong, a property has to be leased out for a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Before we bring in the SEAI, I will say that, on that last point, we would all be concerned if public money was being misused to increase the value of a house. However, that is addressed in the refurbishment grant scheme. There is a clawback built into it and I am sure a clawback could easily be built into this. It would require a change to the scheme that is there at the moment but, rather...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: The ball has very much been kicked into Dr. Keilthy's court by some of those responses.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Before I call Deputy Ó Cathasaigh, I will pick up on Ms Petrie’s final point. Now that smart meters, especially prepay ones, are being rolled out across the country, a great deal of data is being collected. Is Ms Petrie suggesting we as a committee should look to the regulator to ensure this data is used to identify vulnerable customers and put in place a different support for them?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: That is something that the committee could take up directly with the regulatory. Was one of Deputy Donnelly’s questions missed?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Dr. Kielthy, do you want to come in on that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Is there a difficulty with this in that the people we are talking about here, who we really need to do that, are not the ones who are, in general, going to be able to use those apps? I know in the UK, they have developed a service where people go physically to the homes and do an assessment on it. We all know that there is still low-hanging fruit there with regard to insulating attics. The...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Are there any other comments anyone wishes to make?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Does Mr. O'Mahony wish to come back on that? He does not have to admit that he is from Cork either.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: It is something the committee could make a recommendation on.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Social Protection: Energy Poverty: Discussion (17 Jan 2024)

Denis Naughten: Would it be more useful if the Deputy shared it in correspondence and we got the SEAI to come back?

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