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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Thank you. Good morning to the witnesses. We meet again, as Deputy Kelly said. The two things people want to know is when the hospital will open and what it is going to cost. Mr. Gunning told us in his opening statement that the primary driver for the cost increase on the project has been the ongoing delay in the completion of the project. That is the first time that I can recall that he...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: ...money, it said it would not be allocating any more money, but this project is not going to be completed within the lifetime of this Government. With court cases, disputes that still have to be settled and new claims that will come in, is Mr. Gunning confident there is sufficient headroom in that €512 million? Would he give us a guarantee on that? I want to hear a guarantee on that.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: .... On 26 March, there were 61 non-conformance reports to be closed. Six of the reports are being disputed by the contractor. The reports relate to things like not having a formal cleaning plan and the voids having material in them, which I would have thought was pretty important from the point of view of health and safety, and-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: ...the contractor but it does not have any of the details that substantiate that date for an additional three months. I heard a comment today that it is definitive there will be a three-month delay and that has been said by the Minister. Is the board confident? I do not believe it could be if it has not seen the detail of the additional three months. When does it expect to get that detail?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: I was going to say that I have a memory of that and it was months before it complied.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: Why would you not be cracking the whip at this stage? Why would you not be withholding money? This is absolutely scandalous. An additional €512 million has been put in to complete this hospital. Mr. Gunning is telling us that the things that are adding to the cost are the delays. Why would you not use that lever of withholding payment to more or less get the contractor to crack...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: -----and it is threatening to withhold. Is the board actually threatening to withhold?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: It just appears to me to be all one way, and it is not on the public side. Mr. Gunning said there were 1,150 people turning up for work. How many should be turning up for work?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: ...point of view of patient potential, but also financial. On the national maternity hospital, is there anything that would preclude this contractor from tendering for the national maternity hospital and winning a tender for the national maternity hospital based on the experience here with the national children's hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: The same contractor could tender and win the contract for the national maternity hospital even given the experience we have had with the national children's hospital.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: In terms of the liquidated loss in this case, we know the project was to be substantially complete and handed over by November 2022. That is not going to happen until 2025. That is what the board will be looking at in terms of an adjudication it thinks will be challenged.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: It seems like 4,000 out of 5,560, and even at that there are 1,500 that have not got to the threshold that are completed. There are 4,000 rooms where there is still quite considerable work outstanding, even if it is only 10% or 15% of the work. Is February of next year optimistic?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: We are talking about the 2022 accounts. It is now 2024, not that we should toast that fact. Note 2 in the report by the Comptroller and Auditor General states that at the end of 2022, the amount involved was €1.24 billion. Note 8 indicates further capital commitments of €217 million. We know that €40 million was allocated to get the board through that Christmas. Why...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: ...contract, because tendering is a very expensive process, contractors will only engage if they think they have a fighting chance of winning. There may be a contractor, for example, that went in low and made up the balance in claims. If that was the profile of how a contractor was conducting things, is that considered in the context of tendering for further projects? Is there any analysis...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: ...these mistakes, including in the building of the new national maternity hospital in the wrong place. While that is a completely different matter, when you look at the census of population and the demographics, babies are being born on the other side of the city, on the west side of Dublin and the M50, where the demographics suggest that a maternity hospital is required but we are building...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2022: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (30 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: As the Cathaoirleach knows from his own constituency, there are young and growing populations.

Extension of Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2021: Motion (29 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: I would like to follow on on that theme. Every six months we deal with this motion and have been told today that the initiative is part of business support. I feel sorry for the Minister of State. He is standing up here and trying to say something different but it is pretty difficult to do that. We know this is a temporary provision and none of us will oppose it, but neither do we find it...

EU Directive: Motion (29 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: .... Many aspects have been either clarified, updated or better defined. It also reinforces a victim's right to pursue avenues of compensation. This recasting of the directive tightens up many strands in the context of the detection, reporting and investigation of CSAM. Crucially, it endeavours to keep pace with advances in technology, particularly in the area of AI-generated materials,...

Written Answers — Department of Education and Skills: Special Educational Needs (28 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: 222. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if the national list of SNAs can be released in a more efficient and transparent manner in view of the fact that persons are left wondering if they will have a job for the new school term; and if she will engage with the NCSE on this matter urgently. [23845/24]

Written Answers — Department of Justice and Equality: An Garda Síochána (28 May 2024)

Catherine Murphy: 327. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the number of e-bikes and e-scooters seized by gardaí within the Wicklow division in 2022 and 2023 and to date in 2024; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23578/24]

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