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Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: As long as I am Minister, I will be willing to continue to do something I consider to be very important. Every year, the Dormant Accounts Fund Disbursement Board produces a report. On its publication, it is fair for the holder of my office to come to the House to respond to a debate and provide a forum in which it can be seen whether the Government has lived up to its promises or if the...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Section 9(4) provides that, as soon as practical after receiving the board's report, the Minister shall cause copies of the report to be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. My understanding is that the mechanism of asking somebody to come into the Houses is one for the Houses themselves. I assure the Senator, however, that having laid the report it would be a foolish Minister who would...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: An issue was raised on Committee Stage about appointment of members and this amendment deals with that aspect. The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that groups working in the area of tackling disadvantage and with persons with a disability have the opportunity to make submissions concerning the appointment of four of the ten ordinary members to the board. I have never been keen on...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: With regard to Senator Ryan's question, the wording is drafted in accordance with legal advice. I am not sure it is a positive development but we have become technocratic about procedures. I am always reminded of a version I saw of the play, "A Man For All Seasons", in which a commentator represented the common person. It is important that boards are not peopled with appointees who have PhDs,...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Not yet. Anybody who thinks lobbying of a board does not take place because it is one remove from a Minister has never experienced the worlds of academia and voluntary organisations. People will be accountable at least under this legislation. There is two problems with Senator Ulick Burke's proposal, which crop up now and again. If all the CDPs were given a right to nominate somebody to the...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: It is very dangerous ground. It is also dangerous to ignore the desire and need for proper representation of women on boards. If the Senators were Ministers, I would prefer them to be doing the nominations, subject to what is being imposed today, rather than some distant body that I think would be much easier manipulated than any Minister. We are elected to make decisions. We should make them...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: There is an extra element here. The criteria laid down for the board as it is were very general when the advertisement was placed in the newspapers last year. They were so general that it is a matter of judgment for ADM as to what is in and what is out. The advertisement was in no way specific and every position came under the one advertisement. We are trying to move away from that to a more...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: If that were to happen in this case, does the Senator not think there would be a danger of the board resigning due to the Minister not applying the plan? That would happen if it thought the Minister had gone off the rails. If the board resigned, one would be in right trouble. The group has to write a report examining the criteria and each decision to see if it was made strictly according to...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: On the question of Government approval with or without amendment, I thought long and hard about this issue and I have a certain sympathy with the points expressed by the Senators. However, what I have found is that where one writes something in a very constricted manner, not only does it stop one doing things that would not be desirable, but at times it can stop one doing things that are very...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Yes. There will always be a problem and I do not know how we will legislate because one cannot legislate for every eventuality. I believe the cause of worry is simple. Say, for instance, Senator Ó Murchú has submitted an application and has asked that we turf out Senator Ryan's application and substitute his one. In reality that is not the kind of decision I make as Minister. The kind of...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: We had a very productive discussion further in the week on the various issues.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: On the question of decision making, the board must have three criteria, namely, appropriate skills, regional balance and gender balance. The next issue is whether it is for capital or current expenditure. It can be for both but in certain ways it lends itself to capital expenditure because capital expenditure by its nature is one-off. The next issue raised is whether it is for current...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: My experience of various organisations over the years is that when one takes out the political process they become over-cautious, over-regulated and unable to deal with the realities of people's lives. A wise civil servant, whom I admired and who could be strict, always warned people about dangers. Once, in Northern Ireland, he said to me, "The reality is, you cannot survive without us." The...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: They agree it was right to interfere and the system which existed was not good enough. It did not deliver people their rights. I have huge sympathy for the wording of the amendment. I thought long and hard as to whether there was any way to amend that part of the Bill which baldly states the Government may approve the submission with or without amendment. I weighed the matter carefully and...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: A substantial amount of money has been sanctioned by the board. Under the current system, I have never queried anything it has done. My approval is already required in cases involving amounts greater than €300,000. The only case I queried was where current funding was provided and I asked a legitimate question regarding sustainability. It is a fair question for a Minister to ask. I did not...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: There is not a great deal of difference between the Cabinet or myself being involved.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Maybe but maybe not. It was a legitimate and well-founded question. I am genuinely concerned that much of this money has been dealt with in such a way as to raise serious questions about sustainability. People from all walks of life come to me and ask about these bodies. "Who are they?" they say, "I never heard of them in my area. I did not know they existed." I shrug my shoulders and say the...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Senator Ryan might become a Minister from the Senate. There are precedents, such as Senators Seán Moylan and James Dooge.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: Stranger things have happened.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Éamon Ó Cuív: A Senator cannot become Taoiseach or Minister for Finance but can get any other job. However, no matter who has the job of making decisions, whether it is a Leader company or a peace project, one is told a certain political group has control, does not follow fair criteria and decisions are upside down. A valid case was mentioned on the Adjournment last week, but I had to wash my hands of it...

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