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Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Second Stage. (18 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: It is.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Second Stage. (18 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: At least he is still vertical.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Second Stage (Resumed). (18 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: Time is limited but this has been a good debate which I have enjoyed. There was great honesty and candour in the contributions. There was even occasional drama, especially when Senator Norris reminded us of the off the shoulder number in diamanté worn by one of his assailants and telling us in lurid detail about what she was doing with one of her hands while her partner assaulted him.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Second Stage (Resumed). (18 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: Wait until the media get their hands on that colourful story. This Bill is a balanced approach but I agree with Senator Ryan that the proof of the pudding, as it were, will be in the enforcement. One can have all the laws one likes but if they are not enforced, they are window dressing. If a law is to be enforceable, it must be one that works. Gardaí were confronted with a situation where...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Second Stage (Resumed). (18 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: We really did not have €50 or €60, or its equivalent, to spend on occasions like this. Senator Maurice Hayes made some points in relation to the different parts of premises. I ask Members to bear in mind that prohibition applies to kids in the bar of a premises. Anybody who wants to serve meals in their premises or to readjust a room so that parents can have pints, spirits or whatever...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: The present definition states: "disorderly conduct" means any unreasonable behaviour by a person on licensed premises which, having regard to all the circumstances, is likely to cause injury, fear or distress to any other person on the premises". It must be that it is in the light of all the circumstances that it would be likely to cause these things. For instance, in the boisterous aftermath...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: The amendment includes "unreasonable behaviour which is so likely by reason of the fact that the behaviour constitutes or includes one or more of the following behaviour" to cause injury, fear or distress. Why should conduct causing damage to property have to be contingent on its being likely to cause injury, fear or distress to any other person?

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: This Bill is intended to operate until I introduce the major consolidating Act in 2004. If between now and then I think the law needs to be changed, I will do so. The phrase "quarrelsome", as it appears in the Bill, is in the existing law. It was not thought up one afternoon and written on the back of a beer mat in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform in recent times.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: If it was so devised, it took place 131 years ago. The purpose of this section is to save the existing law and make it more workable. Quarrelsome behaviour is already an offence in a public house. Therefore, I am not introducing some new standard or draconian measure.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: In this context, we are dealing with people committing an offence of being drunk, but we are also dealing with the question of the publican committing an offence by permitting a person in this state to be on the premises. If anyone thinks they are doing a favour to publicans, they may be doing the exact opposite. The benign, smiling fellow snoozing in the corner may, if I extend this...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I have explained that the terms "drunk" and "drunkenness" are to be construed according to what is meant by the term "drunken person". That may assist a little. When I presented the heads of the Bill to the Oireachtas joint committee, I provided a different definition which included the words "significant impairment of intellectual ability" and such like. That was a cause of much disquiet.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: That is correct. Academics said I would have to administer breathalysers and such like. The definition of "drunken person" is derived from the definition of the term set out in public order legislation. If a person is arrested for being drunk and disorderly, that test of drunkenness will apply. In view of this, I would prefer to maintain the definition.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I will accept the amendment.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: Section 6 deals with this aspect. A drunken person is required to leave a licensed premises on being required to do so by the licensee or a member of the Garda Síochána and shall not seek entry to the bar of a licensed premises. Sections 5 and 6 create criminal offences punishable in accordance with section 5(2) and section 6(3) and arrestable by a member of the Garda Síochána. As matters...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I will examine Senator Minihan's point. The law at present provides that if a licensed person permits drunkenness on a premises, he is liable to a penalty under the 1872 Act. The phrase "permitting drunkenness" is already in use. We are not dealing with a novel concept. Subparagraph (c), therefore, is an existing offence and the defence provided for it in subsection (4) is reasonable. It...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I see considerable merit in the thrust of Senator Henry's amendment and I am glad that she is not pernickety about the exact wording or whatever. On foot of what she said on Second Stage, one of my officials attended a meeting of the strategic task force on alcohol this morning. The task force discussed the issue of responses other than just the fines imposed by the District Court,...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I will deal with the Senator's point when we come to deal with sections 20 and 21.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: It is a cornerstone of intoxicating liquor law, as I understand it, that the authority of the licensee is vested in his or her staff at any given stage and that he or she is liable for their actions as though they were him or her, if acting within the scope of their employment. For instance, if that was not the case, most of the law would be inoperable simply by virtue of the licensee being...

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I have a text book here and will look up the point but I am fairly confident that I am correct.

Seanad: Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2003: Committee Stage. (19 Jun 2003)

Michael McDowell: I regret that I am not disposed to accepting this amendment because its effect would be that it would no longer be an offence for a person to engage in disorderly conduct in a licensed premises. An offence would arise only if the disorderly person refused to leave or re-entered within 24 hours. One of the principal aims of the Bill is to address the problems of drunkenness and disorderly...

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