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Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I spent a very pleasant five months as Minister for Finance with my colleague, Mr. Oskar La Fontaine, who was Minister for Finance in the German Republic until he decided to vacate the position. He was a most pleasant individual and we had many interesting talks. I notice that he is making his presence felt again in the German press although many people thought he was going to retire. He has...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Can I just interrupt the Senator to make one point? I as a back bencher was the first Deputy on the Fianna Fáil side at that time to compliment Alan Dukes.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I did it before he was ousted from leadership of the Fine Gael Party and I used the phrase it is a great tradition to say when a person is gone that he was a great man. I did it a long time before he went.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I accept that.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: In each of my years as Minister for Finance, I have achieved an overall Exchequer surplus. Debt has been reduced to 34% of GDP, which is the second lowest ratio in the European Union. In the five years of the previous Administration, the Government increased gross public spending by nearly 100% from a figure of roughly €18 billion in 1997. Gross public spending will be of the order of €38...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I would not have been as careful in the meetings.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I know the Senator might not take as much interest now that he is no longer a Member of the Lower House, but he may notice that the Commission came forward with its proposals and recommendations which were to take account of Ireland's situation. The Commission has been beaten back—

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Even though we have been at odds with the Commission in many areas, its proposals were to recognise low debt countries.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: In 2003, Ireland will probably end up, in GGB terms, with a deficit of 0.6%. Everyone is supposed to be close to balance or in surplus. There is no rule about it, but it would generally be taken to be 0.5%.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I was about to deal with that matter. There was a hint that this was going to be a bit of a laugh and that Ireland could possibly be criticised and have maybe a deficit of 0.6%. We were regarded as close to balance on the basis of the cyclically adjusted budgetary balance, which is a very complicated method of calculation used in recent years – it is too complicated for any politician to...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: No, it is not totally off the table. The Heads of Government will return to the matter. I recognise why the Commission set out these simplistic rules and did not differentiate between current and capital expenditure because people would be creative in that regard. I accept that the rules are simplified, but there should be a matrix in relation to a country's size, debt ratio, levels of...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Numbers in the health service increased from 68,000 to 96,000 in five years. Many of these people were recruited over an 18 month period.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Something which has not been widely commented on is the cap I placed on public service numbers. During the term of the previous Government, the number of public servants increased by 50,000, of which approximately 40,000 were recruited to the health service. I imposed a cap on these numbers in the budget and indicated that there must be a reduction of 5,000 over the next two years. Much of...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Or retire.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Previous caps were very rigid. This proposal is more flexible. Departments and agencies will have more flexibility in moving people around. It will not be a rigid cap of the type that caused many difficulties in the past.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: No, front-line services will not be affected. Previous capping was rigid, but the current policy will be flexible. The figure stands at 280,000, but one can play around within it.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I will take it as a compliment.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I agree with much of what Senator White has said. It took almost 40 years for the Newbridge bypass to be completed. A late Fine Gael county councillor and business person, participated in a campaign in the 1950s opposing the building of the Naas bypass. I recall him saying in the 1970s or 1980s that he had lived long enough to be part of the campaign to stop the construction of the bypass and...

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: I will give the details. We are still agreeing with Departments the relevant figures to be achieved over two years and how the numbers can be reduced by 5,000.

Seanad: Finance Bill 2003 [ Certified Money Bill ] : Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Mar 2003)

Charlie McCreevy: Yes. It will include all the agencies under them. It will not be done in the crude way it was done before where so many—

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